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General Chat Thread, Dear George Osborne..... in General; Just do what I do and insult these chinless politicians and bankers on Twitter to their faces. Still waiting for ...
  1. #16

    tech_guy's Avatar
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    Just do what I do and insult these chinless politicians and bankers on Twitter to their faces. Still waiting for SB to kick my front door in and drag me away screaming

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    mattx (26th July 2012)

  3. #17
    Gibbo's Avatar
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    I really am finding it hard to believe we're in a bad financial position. I was in a Ford dealership at the weekend, they were absolutely swamped with people buying new cars. The manager said they'd never been so busy (is it new plate time or something?) and people were waiting to be served because they didn't have enough sales staff (eight).

    Weeknights and weekends in Liverpool are full of shoppers laden down with bags of goodies.

    Pubs and restaurants are full.

    I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, just that people I've seen don't seem to be letting it bother them and their spending.

    But, just to make the point political, anyone remember Gordon Brown and the reducing of the VAT to 15% - "lets spend our way out of recession"?

    No Gordon, lets put out money aside for a rainy day like our parents and grandparents did.

  4. #18

    aerospacemango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbo View Post
    I really am finding it hard to believe we're in a bad financial position. I was in a Ford dealership at the weekend, they were absolutely swamped with people buying new cars. The manager said they'd never been so busy (is it new plate time or something?) and people were waiting to be served because they didn't have enough sales staff (eight).

    Weeknights and weekends in Liverpool are full of shoppers laden down with bags of goodies.

    Pubs and restaurants are full.

    I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, just that people I've seen don't seem to be letting it bother them and their spending.

    But, just to make the point political, anyone remember Gordon Brown and the reducing of the VAT to 15% - "lets spend our way out of recession"?

    No Gordon, lets put out money aside for a rainy day like our parents and grandparents did.
    Sadly, @Gibbo, economics has changed since our parents and grandparents day. Globalisation means that when Spain and Greece catch a cold, it soon goes round the world. I don't doubt your apocryphal story about Ford, but Brown WAS right (to an extent). Spain and Greece have had similar austerity measures to us, and they are circling the plughole, threatening to take Italy/France/Germany(?) with them. Germany may well be one of the biggest economies in the world, but they are not immune, and are getting a bit fed up of digging deep for everyone else.

    By spending, instead of saving, you inject capital into the system. By not spending, you weaken the system.

  5. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbo View Post
    I really am finding it hard to believe we're in a bad financial position. I was in a Ford dealership at the weekend, they were absolutely swamped with people buying new cars. The manager said they'd never been so busy (is it new plate time or something?) and people were waiting to be served because they didn't have enough sales staff (eight).

    Weeknights and weekends in Liverpool are full of shoppers laden down with bags of goodies.

    Pubs and restaurants are full.

    I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, just that people I've seen don't seem to be letting it bother them and their spending.

    But, just to make the point political, anyone remember Gordon Brown and the reducing of the VAT to 15% - "lets spend our way out of recession"?

    No Gordon, lets put out money aside for a rainy day like our parents and grandparents did.
    you know where ideas like cutting VAT come from, they are more palatable for the politicians who [no matter the denomination] hate the idea of giving basic rate employees a big wodge of cash in the form of a tax holiday. IT's seen as money for nothing, whereas a scheme that involves giving credit towards the cost of something [think scrappage or stamp duty holiday] is much more sensible in their eyes, because it's also not leaving it up to the hardworking masses to decide how to spend their own money - the overall economic benefits seem to matter little.

    i too see full restaurants and new plate motors, but i think it's more down to people in employment realising that they might aswell put some disposable income and what they've worked hard to save to use through enjoying one's life rather than get bogged down by a system that doesn't leave you much disposable income to begin with. The tax system is so ridiculously complicated and does so much to work against the people who fund it, then why not enjoy a week's holiday all inclusive and a nice meal out at that new place that's opened ? The govt. takes advantage if your prudent, so you'd might swell stick two fingers up at them and show their stupidity won't stop you enjoying what consumerism has to offer.

  6. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by alttab View Post
    you know where ideas like cutting VAT come from, they are more palatable for the politicians who [no matter the denomination] hate the idea of giving basic rate employees a big wodge of cash in the form of a tax holiday. IT's seen as money for nothing, whereas a scheme that involves giving credit towards the cost of something [think scrappage or stamp duty holiday] is much more sensible in their eyes, because it's also not leaving it up to the hardworking masses to decide how to spend their own money - the overall economic benefits seem to matter little.
    its like the child tax credits surely its simpler/better to just up the appropriate peoples non taxable income rather than taking money off them then giving it back

  7. #21

    tech_guy's Avatar
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    A lot of people I know have adopted the 'sod it, I'm going to spend it' mentality because of the current situation and the fact they don't trust the banks and fear them collapsing. One of my friends now keeps his savings in a German bank account because he doesn't trust the British banking system.

  8. #22


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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_guy View Post
    A lot of people I know have adopted the 'sod it, I'm going to spend it' mentality because of the current situation and the fact they don't trust the banks and fear them collapsing. One of my friends now keeps his savings in a German bank account because he doesn't trust the British banking system.
    arnt deposits up to some amount (several 10s of thousands) guranteed by the government incase banks go bust?

  9. #23

    tech_guy's Avatar
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    Yes, it's up to £85k I think.

    Hah, just tried to go to http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/safe-savings and there's too many connections lol and the page can't be loaded!
    Last edited by tech_guy; 27th July 2012 at 09:27 AM.

  10. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    pretty much as labour predicted: massive cuts =>double dip recession => less taxation => increased borrowing
    Except that there haven't been massive cuts because government expenditure has risen under the Coalition government.

  11. #25

    aerospacemango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster View Post
    Except that there haven't been massive cuts because government expenditure has risen under the Coalition government.
    Can you back that up with facts???

  12. #26

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster View Post
    Except that there haven't been massive cuts because government expenditure has risen under the Coalition government.
    [Citation Needed]

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    aerospacemango (30th July 2012)

  14. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    Can you back that up with facts???
    UK Central Government and Local Authority Public Spending 2013 - Pie Charts Tables

    2008: £576.0Bn
    2009: £621.4Bn
    2010: £660.8Bn
    2011: £681.3Bn
    2012: £688.0Bn
    2013: £676.6Bn
    2014: £715.3Bn

    Obviously the 12-14 figures are projected.

    Government is spending more than ever. It seems to me that some people could do with broadening their news consumption beyond the Guardian and BBC.

  15. #28

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster View Post
    UK Central Government and Local Authority Public Spending 2013 - Pie Charts Tables

    2008: £576.0Bn
    2009: £621.4Bn
    2010: £660.8Bn
    2011: £681.3Bn
    2012: £688.0Bn
    2013: £676.6Bn
    2014: £715.3Bn

    Obviously the 12-14 figures are projected.

    Government is spending more than ever. It seems to me that some people could do with broadening their news consumption beyond the Guardian and BBC.
    Let's adjust those figures for inflation shall we.

    2008:£622.08bn
    2009:£646.26bn
    2010:£693.00bn
    2011:£~715.37bn

    Projections ain't any use.

    Now, lets look at tax receipts, inflation adjusted:

    2008:£548.64
    2009:£496.91
    2010:£555.35
    2011:£578.13

    So, yes, overall spend has increased, but so have tax receipts. Remember - the government has said its aim is reducing the deficit, it hasn't said it intends to stop spending... Cuts in one area can lead to increases in others.

    Also, take into account that over those couple of years that the government has been in power, there are lots of short-term costs involved when cancelling projects/contracts, which still comes out of the expenditure.

  16. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Let's adjust those figures for inflation shall we.

    2008:£622.08bn
    2009:£646.26bn
    2010:£693.00bn
    2011:£~715.37bn

    Projections ain't any use.

    Now, lets look at tax receipts, inflation adjusted:

    2008:£548.64
    2009:£496.91
    2010:£555.35
    2011:£578.13

    So, yes, overall spend has increased, but so have tax receipts. Remember - the government has said its aim is reducing the deficit, it hasn't said it intends to stop spending... Cuts in one area can lead to increases in others.

    Also, take into account that over those couple of years that the government has been in power, there are lots of short-term costs involved when cancelling projects/contracts, which still comes out of the expenditure.
    Cybernerd was claiming that cutting government expenditure led to the double-dip recession. Expenditure clearly hasn't been cut. Nor has borrowing - in fact borrowing is larger than ever and makes up the £100Bn+ shortfall between tax receipts and expenditure.

    So if there's one thing that the government hasn't done, it's spend less. There are plenty of things that caused the double-dip recession, but the GuardianWorld view that it's cutting expenditure which has done it has no basis in reality.

  17. #30

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster View Post
    So if there's one thing that the government hasn't done, it's spend less. There are plenty of things that caused the double-dip recession, but the GuardianWorld view that it's cutting expenditure which has done it has no basis in reality.
    The main thing that has no basis in reality is the banks and accountants deciding that the resession was over and the economy everywhere was getting itself out of trouble.

    All I hear on the news about the economy is how the figures show that it has been saved, then in trouble, then saved... this ontinuous cycle of BS is the really disconnected point of view. Unfourtunatly these people that sit about with their calculator trying to decide if they have made up enough money for that day or not are the ones running things. In their world the global economy seems to go from saved to in trouble three or more times a day. With this kind of insanely short term thinking at the top of the chain is it any wonder that things are still a mess.

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