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General Chat Thread, Owning your own home..... in General; Don't do it... I bought my own house at 22 because I could afford it but wish I'd waited a ...
  1. #46

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    Don't do it... I bought my own house at 22 because I could afford it but wish I'd waited a few more years. It's a pain being tied down like that, especially with a good chunk of your income having to go on a mortgage (and no way to downsize/upsize it like you can when renting)...

    I did manage to make a income out of it though as I didn't need the other bedroom so rented that out to help cover costs, which I really recommend for anyone who is buying a house without a real need for the space.

    P.S Because I bought one that's roughly 30% of my income, it's now a real struggle to save anything (everytime I get a decent amount the house seems to suck it up).
    Last edited by mossj88; 25th July 2012 at 11:31 AM.

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  3. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    I don't think .5% is going to last. While I agree we're unlikely to the heady heights of 17% again, 1% buy christmas is likely. Within the next 5-10 years I think we'll see 5-6% again. The question is when and how fast?
    With this news it might be a while before interest rates go back up

    Recession in UK economy deepens

  4. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    I'm quite angry now. I assume that was your intention with your offensive little jibe.
    The comment was mine personally and not that of my company or an official company line Hi I am Chris by the way, nice to erm.............you having a bad morning?

    I think you misunderstood what I was saying - all I said was anyone is that fiscally responsible why would they need to borrow or be given a deposit. It seems a fair enough point to me and it wasn't aimed at you in particular. I always find this a problem on here - nothing is meant as a personal jibe, only interpreted that way. Your comments however do seem personal now? Maybe it is just me. It seems like you are angry at my personal views and I am afraid that is life and to be honest I stand by it. You cannot be fully fiscally responsible if you live to your means, pay all of your bills but the main chunk (the deposit) is or was paid by someone else? You cannot possibly advise others of how to do it when someone has paid yours for you surely? That is what we have MP's for

    My sincerest apologies if I caused offence, I certainly didn't mean it that way - was just giving my opinion which at the end of the day is what the general chat part of the forum is all about?

    I like to call it a debate, not an argument and I like to give my opinion as others do. If I ever cause offence to anyone on here, it isn't ever meant that way.

    Chris

  5. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by mossj88 View Post
    Don't do it... I bought my own house at 22 because I could afford it but wish I'd waited a few more years. It's a pain being tied down like that, especially with a good chunk of your income having to go on a mortgage (and no way to downsize/upsize it like you can when renting)...

    I did manage to make a income out of it though as I didn't need the other bedroom so rented that out to help cover costs, which I really recommend for anyone who is buying a house without a real need for the space.

    P.S Because I bought one that's roughly 30% of my income, it's now a real struggle to save anything (everytime I get a decent amount the house seems to suck it up).
    I'm quite envious actually. Think of how much sooner you'll have paid off that mortgage! But I can see how owning a house would really interfere with your life in your early 20's. That being said, I guess it largely depends on personality and lifestyle. I've never been one for socialising or 'living it up', I've always been a bit on the boring side and the idea of owning a home at 22 is my idea of heaven!

    I totally agree that "everytime I get a decent amount the house seems to suck it up" - I am certain that non-home owners cannot possibly appreciate the full extent to which this is the case, as really big things are covered (or should be) by the landlord. Which I suppose is partially an attraction of renting. If you rent you don't have to worry about paying for new kitchens, or replacing the Oven (if this is included as part of the deal - I don't know) or the boiler. LeBoyfriend and I are finding that all the grand dreams we had when we bought our fixer-upper have had to be scaled back and the timescales RADICALLY reassessed. The hallway with the artex walls and holes and asbestos panels is looking AMAZING! But it has taken much longer than we would have liked. The asbestos has been removed and the walls sanded down and smoothed over and we're at the wallpaper hanging phase. But the soil stack cracked some more over winter, so now THAT needs doing, and the toilet is busted so THAT needs doing. Bye-bye £400 :-S. The pressure gauge in the boiler failing in march was a PITA and was another £100 (would have been £300 if we didn't know the plumber) and the Oven exploding was another £200 I didn't want to have to spend. Oh look, I've just spent nearly £1000 without even trying!

    I also have a similar situation with my car. Every time I get a month free of hefty bills, something dies either at home or on the car. I was hoping June would be a cheap month for me. No such luck. Home insurance was up for renewal and my back box blew on the car. It's been going for a while, just bad timing really.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpltd
    I think you misunderstood what I was saying - all I said was anyone is that fiscally responsible why would they need to borrow or be given a deposit.
    But equally, we all KNOW how ridiculous the housing market is, being responsible with money is a very different matter to having to come up with a massive lump sum like £15,000. It takes years and years to save that sort of cash - it's not something easily put together in 2 or 3 years. Especially when you've been at Uni and working poorly salaried jobs (rather than not work at all). IMO A person can be responsible with money but still need to borrow. It's not about not borrowing, to me it's about what you are borrowing for and whether you can pay it back. Borrowing £15,000 from our parents for a luxury holiday is obscene, borrowing it to buy a house can still be 'responsible' as long as you manage your finances correctly and don't lose the house through irresponsible spending (and I don't mean losing the house because you've been made redundant and get repossessed - I feel desperately sorry for people that suffer this), I'm talking about people that live beyond their means, live a luxury life with cedit cards and holidays and gambling then whine to the bankruptcy judge about their poor hard-done-by childhood! That is not to say that a person cannot still be responsible and have holidays, as long as they can afford them. IMO a person can still be responsible and have a credit card - it is more about their attitude to what they do with it and how they pay it back that defines responsibility or not. The only way a person will EVER be 100% self-sufficient is if they win or inherit a LOT of money. Not having a lot of money and having to borrow doesn't automatically equate to irresponsible. Perhaps there is a fundamental difference in understanding of the term 'irresponsible' when applied to money? In which case is anyone with a student loan, an arranged overdraft, a mortgage, a car loan etc therefore automatically irresponsible? I certainly don't think so! Someone that is raping their elderly mother's bank account to fund their 4 horses who then whines to the bankruptcy judge about how they 'struggled' to keep a roof over their elderly mothers head (who is in a nursing home) is irresponsible!

    Quote Originally Posted by cpltd
    You cannot be fully fiscally responsible if you live to your means, pay all of your bills but the main chunk (the deposit) is or was paid by someone else? You cannot possibly advise others of how to do it when someone has paid yours for you surely? That is what we have MP's for
    'Main chunk' - hardly. The private loan arrangement we have with our parents is certainly no-ones business. You seem to be under the impression that we were 'given' the money? This is incorrect. We DO have to pay it back, and the terms of this long-term loan are private but suffice it to say that ultimately, we will have paid that deposit ourselves. The problem was not the 'being able to afford' it, the problem was the 'not having that lump sum readily available'. Since we didn't have the lump sum, and they did, we borrowed it from them. With the emphasis on borrow, implying repayment. FTR The OP was venting about the frustrations of affording a house, and having been there and done that and having surveyed several options taking into consideration our lack of lump-sum deposit I thought I'd share the things I did. It is really worth going to a homebuyer show - mostly it's rubbish but there are occasional helpful hints and tips and you can get a financial advisor to give you a quick rundown for free in lots of cases and it was really worth getting a professional opinion (even if you don't go with them). We looked at shared-ownership and my Father was horrified at the terms, which is how we ended up arranging the deposit loan in the first place. We looked at a lot of options but the local HA rejected us on the grounds that we earned too much and didn't have any children. Apparently, if we had a child, we'd qualify for a house. Because we didn't and I wasn't pregnant they would only help us buy a flat. The price of the flat was the same as what we ended up paying for our house!!
    Last edited by AMLightfoot; 25th July 2012 at 12:42 PM.

  6. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by mossj88 View Post
    P.S Because I bought one that's roughly 30% of my income, it's now a real struggle to save anything (everytime I get a decent amount the house seems to suck it up).
    I wish my rent was 30% of my income! When I move at the end of the month, I'll be looking at more like 40%... Plus bills.

    Buying a house is a pipe dream for me. I'd love to have a place which was *mine* and no-one else can tell me what I can and can't do with it! (Room kitted out like the enterprise?)...

  7. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    I'm quite envious actually. Think of how much sooner you'll have paid off that mortgage! But I can see how owning a house would really interfere with your life in your early 20's. That being said, I guess it largely depends on personality and lifestyle. I've never been one for socialising or 'living it up', I've always been a bit on the boring side and the idea of owning a home at 22 is my idea of heaven!
    One thing I wished I'd figured out sooner is I bought the house near to a University so I could of rented that @ £600 (2 Bed Duplex Flat, 3 minutes from University/City Centre/Train Station) and with a mortgage of £450 pocketed the difference... then I'd have been able to carry on enjoying my lifestyle in rented accommodation whilst paying the mortgage off and earning from my investment.

    It's something I'm still tempted by (I have a baby and partner now, so flat isn't ideal but I could get a nice terrace away from the University).. So I guess it's always an option to house owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I wish my rent was 30% of my income! When I move at the end of the month, I'll be looking at more like 40%... Plus bills.

    Buying a house is a pipe dream for me. I'd love to have a place which was *mine* and no-one else can tell me what I can and can't do with it! (Room kitted out like the enterprise?)...
    You have to consider a mortgage is only part of the regular cost of owning a home, my "house" outgoings is more like ~45-50% + bills (rainy day funds, work that needs doing, buildings insurance (sort of a bill but not)).

    I'm trying to get my finances steady by working as a freelancer (aiming for around six months of my regular income) only then will I feel truely "secure".
    Last edited by mossj88; 25th July 2012 at 12:34 PM.

  8. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I wish my rent was 30% of my income! When I move at the end of the month, I'll be looking at more like 40%... Plus bills.

    Buying a house is a pipe dream for me. I'd love to have a place which was *mine* and no-one else can tell me what I can and can't do with it! (Room kitted out like the enterprise?)...
    Our bills (all of them, including the food budget but excluding car loans) are almost exactly 50% of our respective monthly incomes each, or 100% of a single income. That being said, the mortgage is still 25% of our income (or 50% of one persons)... Eurgh, I'd not looked at it that way before. Begone vile cold maths!

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    I spent the last 5 years on couches saving the money for my house. (I don't have wealthy parents and leeching of family and friends was hard) I don't see how anyone these days can save for a deposit without asking their parents for assistance or taking impractical lifestyle changes. The cost of Rent has become silly, if you're a couple with full time jobs and a frugle outlook you might just manage.

    The cost of houses is the issue. My house was flipped 4 times from (1999) 32K to 53k to 78k to 98 to 142k! (2007) someone has to pay for that profit and it going to be the new home owners.

    I think we to limit the amount of homes people (landlords) can own by jacking up 2nd, 3rd homeownership costs to make it unattractive. IMHO not owning a house in this society makes you a second class citizen, its unfair. The cost of living for a non-homeowner over their lifetime is significant.

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  11. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    The only way a person will EVER be 100% self-sufficient is if they win or inherit a LOT of money.
    That is where we disagree and we will have to leave it at that - I am not from the school of thought that means you can only be self sufficient by winning or inheriting money. I wouldn't have any self drive if I thought like that and it seems very shortsighted.

    I suppose the question would be, how did our parents all do it? The answer is they saved and yes it was long and hard, but they all managed to do it.

    I just find it a bit rich to give advice on buying a property and suggest to people they should get on the property ladder due to security and not throwing money away on rent. When, the only reason they are on the ladder in the first place is because someone else put them there.

    In the words of Big Dunc Bannatyne - "I'm out"


    Chris

  12. #55

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    Ahhhh...the old "jump on the housing ladder"!

    My fiancee and I get married in just under three weeks. We have started to discuss what we can do to buy a place together.

    Bear in mind that between us we have 3 kids (16, 13 & 7), and we have to realistically look at a large 3 bed. Around our area, there's nothing suitable for less than £120,000.... This means we NEED a minimum of £12,000 to even THINK about buying. Where do you get that kind of cash from? We could save, but we're looking at a minimum of 2 years saving.

    Therefore, to get a headstart, we decided that instead of having the traditional wedding list, we would have a "Wishing Well". I built this myself, and it is a repository for envelopes with cash/cheques! We have written a poem to go with the invites so that people know that we have everything we need for a house.....except our OWN house! Anything that goes in the box, whether it be a £5 or £50 will go into an account for our deposit. And when we do buy a house, our guests will be safe in the knowledge that we thank them and appreciate their help.

    Still makes me fed up when I see a house that would be perfect for us......but we haven't got the deposit!!

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  14. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by CPLTD View Post
    That is where we disagree and we will have to leave it at that - I am not from the school of thought that means you can only be self sufficient by winning or inheriting money. I wouldn't have any self drive if I thought like that and it seems very shortsighted.

    I suppose the question would be, how did our parents all do it? The answer is they saved and yes it was long and hard, but they all managed to do it.

    I just find it a bit rich to give advice on buying a property and suggest to people they should get on the property ladder due to security and not throwing money away on rent. When, the only reason they are on the ladder in the first place is because someone else put them there.
    In the words of Big Dunc Bannatyne - "I'm out"


    Chris
    That seems to be a rather harsh appraisal of what was said, Either you've not paid attention to the answer you were given....or you just don't want to read it.

    As I understand it, @AMLightfoot said that the deposit was a loan arrangement between herself, her significant other, and her parents. Is this any different to someone taking out a loan for a deposit from the banks? (Other than a favourable interest rate!) Therefore, it is a bit nasty to suggest that "someone else put them there". This is one way that many people scrape together the deposit.....Are they ALL in the wrong?

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    Home ownership...something i wish i'd never gotten in to

    Bought a flat with my missus in 2007 just before the housing issues....95% mortgage on a 1 bed flat paying £562pm repayments. Whereas if i had just gone straight into renting i could have had a 2 bed house for that price. Now letting that flat out (for a small monthly loss) and i've moved 4 times in the past 5 years through renting. Finally think i've found the right place for me though, paying £650pm for a 4 bed detached house and guaranteed to be there for at least 14 years (belongs to missus dad and he has a stupidly long fixed rate on his mortgage)

    Definitely recommend renting lots first, find out what sort of house you can see yourself happily living in for a long time before locking yourself in to a place.

  17. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMLightfoot View Post
    Our bills (all of them, including the food budget but excluding car loans) are almost exactly 50% of our respective monthly incomes each, or 100% of a single income. That being said, the mortgage is still 25% of our income (or 50% of one persons)... Eurgh, I'd not looked at it that way before. Begone vile cold maths!
    That actually sounds like a good situation to me, being a tenant just a few miles over the border from you in West Sussex. Our rent, on a 3 bed house, comes to almost 60% of my income! And that doesn't count everything else. And being married with two under-5s, 'everything else' is a lot.

    No doubt CPLTD will be along a minute to call me financially irresponsible too, I only wish I had any other choice.
    Last edited by crc-ict; 25th July 2012 at 01:02 PM.

  18. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbo View Post
    And what happens when you die? It gets sold and then your kids argue over who gets what percentage which they'll probably blow on a car or holiday. Is it really worth all that effort?
    Or the State takes it off you to pay for your social care in old age.......

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPLTD View Post
    I suppose the question would be, how did our parents all do it? The answer is they saved and yes it was long and hard, but they all managed to do it.
    Not quite. Our parents managed it by saving, sure, but the amount they needed to save was significantly smaller. My parents got a mortgage that was 3x the size of my dad's salary (single earner), and they were lucky as my mom had some money from an inheritance for the deposit. Now, the amount available is basically 5x salary maximum and that will not get most people a house.

    Just look at the price increases shown above by chazzy - £32k to £142k in less than a decade. Inflation hasn't increased that much, nor have wages.

    Also, £120k for a 3 bed place? Wow. Where I'm about to move to, a large 3 bed place will set you back a large £200k+... Anything less and you're buying a shoebox. A 1 bed flat is £80k+...
    Last edited by localzuk; 25th July 2012 at 01:02 PM.



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