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General Chat Thread, PAT testing plugs with 1/2 insulated earth pin in General; Originally Posted by PyROm Just found it odd that a UK plug would be made that wasnt legal. It isnt ...
  1. #16

    FN-GM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyROm View Post
    Just found it odd that a UK plug would be made that wasnt legal.
    It isnt unique to the UK, for example Singapore uses the same type. So it maybe legal in other countries.

  2. #17

    twin--turbo's Avatar
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    BIN.

    I used to pat test, I had not noticed some of these until a Product recall came in from Stone.

    BIN, Bin, BIN.

    Rob

  3. #18
    timbo343's Avatar
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    Apparently, the reason why they have put insulation over the pins is because you can fit a penny in the middle of all three pins, plug them into the mains and short everything out. Just thought i'd add that.

  4. Thanks to timbo343 from:

    accura2000 (28th June 2012)

  5. #19
    HaleStorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timbo343 View Post
    Apparently, the reason why they have put insulation over the pins is because you can fit a penny in the middle of all three pins, plug them into the mains and short everything out. Just thought i'd add that.
    Very true, but the main reason is to stop finger tips catching the live and neutral pins when plugging and unplugging.

  6. #20

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    In the UK we earth everything, yet in most of Europe they earth nothing! So as much as earthing things can be good if they do go wrong, clearly not everything need earthling all the time, as have an obsession with earthing electrics, even your lights need earthing nowadays.

    Yet in Germany (probably a more modern country then here) you don't need to earth anything. Clearly the issue is important but we earth do to much and have to many regulations or maybe we are just clumsy compared to Germans

  7. #21

    twin--turbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Achandler View Post
    In the UK we earth everything, yet in most of Europe they earth nothing! So as much as earthing things can be good if they do go wrong, clearly not everything need earthling all the time, as have an obsession with earthing electrics, even your lights need earthing nowadays.

    Yet in Germany (probably a more modern country then here) you don't need to earth anything. Clearly the issue is important but we earth do to much and have to many regulations or maybe we are just clumsy compared to Germans

    So you would be happy if a live conductor came into contact with the casing of your appliacne, and that once you touched the casing you would be the path to earth for 240v with unlimited (well as much as the cables all the way back to the Generator in the power station) Amps as you can suck?

    Or a misshap throws the RCD/main breaker in your house and all power goes off?

    We are just taking more precautions against the danger.

    Rob

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    I can cope with flicking an RCD switch...

    I am stating we are taking to many precautions, if very few countries see this as a problem then it probably isn't a real problem. I drive a car everyday, I have more chance of dying doing that they some random appliance killing me. Avoiding real dangers is worth it, wasting time and money avoiding the tiny dangers is not. I worry about being electrocuted by my appliances about as much as I do an asteroid hitting the earth.

  9. #23
    HaleStorm's Avatar
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    Having been on the receiving end of a 240v belt, i think as many precautions as possible are a good idea. Doing the 240V Waltz is not something I ever want to do again, luckily there was someone there who was quick thinking and rugby tackled me off the thing that was jolting me. Earthing properly and having all the in-line protection is a good thing in my eyes

  10. #24

    Andrew_C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Achandler View Post
    In the UK we earth everything, yet in most of Europe they earth nothing!
    So what is this connector for then? They DO have unearthed connectors for those things that don't need an earth, something we don't do.

    PAT testing plugs with 1/2 insulated earth pin-220px-schuko_plug_and_socket.png

    You really are talking dangerous BS here.

    Wiki-
    To bridge the differences between German and French standards, the CEE 7/7 plug was developed. It is polarised to prevent the live and neutral connections from being reversed when used with a French CEE 7/5 outlet, but allows polarity reversal when inserted into a German CEE 7/4 socket. The plug is rated at 16 A.
    It has grounding clips on both sides to connect with the CEE 7/4 socket and a female contact to accept the grounding pin of the CEE 7/5 socket. It is used in almost all European countries. Currently, appliances are sold with non-rewireable CEE 7/7 plugs attached. This means that the plugs are now identical between countries like France and Germany, but the sockets are different.
    Last edited by Andrew_C; 28th June 2012 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Additional info

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    Go visit European houses, go look at the plug sockets. Whether Wikipedia claims they definitely do or not isn't reality. Maybe they ignore the rules, I can't prove it either way, but I have family who live there in a new build with none earthing sockets.

    Heck they put real candles and light them on the Christmas trees, sure it may be a fire hazard but they still do it. In the UK you would get a torrent of abuse for that to.


    Edit: Sometimes you have to except that what people say happens and what happens are not the same... Like all those people that never speed, like those people who only ever go up a ladder after being "trained" to.
    Last edited by Achandler; 28th June 2012 at 12:40 PM.

  12. #26

    FN-GM's Avatar
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    In australia they build houses with a socket next to the bathroom sink!

  13. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by FN-GM View Post
    In australia they build houses with a socket next to the bathroom sink!
    I've seen that done in a new build in a science lab

  14. #28

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    In the UK we have a very high standard of electrical safety.
    In the UK we have a very low rate of accidents involving electric shock.
    Perhaps the second statement is as a result of the first?

    The plugs shown in the photos provided are completely illegal to sell in the UK, the penalty for doing so is a maximum of 6 months imprisonment.

    The Plugs and Sockets, etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994 were introduced to provide a regulatory regime to address issues regarding consumer safety. There were concerns that consumer safety was compromised by the substantial quantity of counterfeit and unsafe electrical plugs and sockets being placed on the UK market. The regulations require that all UK plugs have been certified as conforming to BS 1363, so as BS 1363 specifically disallows sleeved Earth pins (but does require sleeved Line and Neutral pins), it is clear that the plugs in question are counterfeit and illegal.

    Despite this, there are many counterfeit plugs on sale in this country, they often have incorrectly sized pins which cause bad contacts and hence overheated/burnt sockets. Some, such as the one in the picture posted by Chris_ have no fuse, others have fuses which are not actually connected to anything, those counterfeit plugs which do have fuses have counterfeit fuses, these do not conform to BS 1362 and will explode if the load is short circuited. Most counterfeits are supplied attached to power cords, and you can be certain that the wire inside those cables is undersized, BASEC have reported wires with as little as 3% of the copper necessary!

    If you come across such counterfeits PLEASE return them to the supplier and draw their attention to their illegal activity, Trading Standards will also be interested, if you do not know where it came from, destroy the plug by breaking off the Line pin (easily done with a pair of pliers) and dispose of the cable safely.

    Someone with PAT testing experience commented that they “wouldn't have batted an eyelid at that”, sadly they are not alone. When I recently had a visit from a PAT tester I gave him a sample power lead having a plug with sleeved earth, and a fuse which was not in circuit. He told me there was nothing wrong with it! (Which demonstrates that PAT testers need some knowledge, and eyesight, not just a test instrument.)

    I do hope HP has been informed about the OP’s discovery, I am sure that they would not be knowingly involved in such criminal activity.

  15. #29

    localzuk's Avatar
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    It won't be HP who have provided this power lead. It will be the reseller in-between. Most HP stuff I've come across doesn't come with a lead from HP, as it gets sold in multiple countries, with different plugs. Only some items come with them specific for the UK.

    For example, servers seem to come without and the reseller puts one in the box.

  16. #30
    HaleStorm's Avatar
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    I think ive had it before with HP stuff, you get the equipment connecting half of the power supply but no mains cable

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