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General Chat Thread, SSD drives in education in General; Originally Posted by synaesthesia I see buying Intel's instead as an insurance policy - it's just gambling. Twice the money ...
  1. #136
    zag
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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    I see buying Intel's instead as an insurance policy - it's just gambling. Twice the money for what?
    Reliability, plain and simple.

    Paying more for Intel (still only 60 quid per drive) for virtually 100% guaranteed reliability is well worth it in my eyes.
    Last edited by zag; 25th May 2012 at 08:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    Have put our drive orders on hold because prices are dropping like flies. 54 quid for the 120 Sandisk Ultra from ebuyer
    I've noticed the same. There was an offer on Amazon for a half price 120Gb SSD drive last week. The offer sold out within minutes and a few days later Ebay was swamped with them at inflated prices.

    I hope those that bought to sell on Ebay have had their fingers burnt!

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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    Have put our drive orders on hold because prices are dropping like flies.
    It's a good idea to wait. 240GB (and possibly 256GB) SSDs should be under 100 soon...

    240GB OCZ Agility 3 - 124.99

    ^ I wonder which fly OCZ would be? Tsetse perhaps?

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    Even Intel aren't immune to bugs :/ Anyone else had a repeat 8mb brick on 320 ssd AFTER firmware update.

    So I'm definitely opting for Crucial m4s this summer - if even Intel have hit firmware problems, then I'm not going to worry about spending the extra on them. Samsung still have an excellent reputation, but I'm not convinced they've been around long enough at this point to truly tell (and they cost more than Crucial, importantly)

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    Running 4 full IT suites out of 6 on SSDs now, best upgrade we've ever made to our machines, 3 of those suites are mini ITX, intel G840 or G620T cpus with 4GB ram, they're fantastic machines for less than 200 a pop (not inc monitor)

    Trying out (read: experimenting) with consumer based SSDs in a SAN now, a local consultant has had a lot of success when they're in RAID6 (as generally due to block degradation they're likely to die quite close together in years to come) and as a tiered storage solution so they won't have a lot on them, just running SQL storage for example (which i might add is backed up daily and the backups checked regularly). Although fingers crossed the cost of enterprise SSDs will drop significantly along with the current SSD price drops, but 110 per 240GB SSD was not to be sniffed at on these

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    This seems like a good a place as any to dump this:

    Solid-state revolution: in-depth on how SSDs really work | Ars Technica

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbios View Post
    Trying out (read: experimenting) with consumer based SSDs in a SAN now,
    I'm very interested in anything you want to share on this. Please post your experiences etc!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbios View Post
    due to block degradation they're likely to die quite close together in years to come
    Something else you can do to prolong the life of the NAND inside of the SSD is to increase the size of the spare area by decreasing the capacity of the drive (typically via MHDD). According to a presentation Intel gave at IDF 2009, endurance is increased by 3.5x if the capacity is reduced by 27%.

    Assuming this applies equally to other makes, a 256GB Crucial M4 with its capacity reduced to 186.88GB should be capable of having at least 252 terabytes written to it (140GB per day over 5 years) instead of the usual 72TB (40GB/day).



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  12. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Something else you can do to prolong the life of the NAND inside of the SSD is to increase the size of the spare area by decreasing the capacity of the drive (typically via MHDD).
    I normally just set the partition a bit smaller when running the Windows installation disc, that seems to do the trick. So long as there's spare room that the SSD knows about and Windows (etc.) doesn't, it gives the SSD controller the room to work with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Assuming this applies equally to other makes, a 256GB Crucial M4 with its capacity reduced to 186.88GB should be capable of having at least 252 terabytes written to it (140GB per day over 5 years) instead of the usual 72TB (40GB/day).
    What I am taking away from this is that I will never hit an average of 40Gb a day of writes on a small SSD on anything less than a server so it's probably fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    I normally just set the partition a bit smaller when running the Windows installation disc, that seems to do the trick.
    That's fine too. I suppose the main advantage of limiting capacity via the SET_MAX_ADDRESS command is that it rules out human error in the future e.g. someone else sees the unused space in the disk management console and decides to increase the partition to fill the drive, or I re-install the OS and forget to make the partition a bit smaller.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    What I am taking away from this is that I will never hit an average of 40GB a day of writes on a small SSD on anything less than a server so it's probably fine.
    Yeah. For regular desktop users 40GB of writes per day is a lot. Even my three year old 160GB Intel X25-M 'G2' SSD which is used for VMs and updating WIM images with DISM has only had 15.29TB written to it over a period of 641 days (15,383 power-on hours). This works out to an average of 24 gigabytes of writes per day. Servers are a different matter however.


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    So... given how frustrating Intel's segmentation of the chipset market is, what difference is SATA3 compared to SATA2 likely to make on performance? The best figures I've seen are on the Samsung 830s which suggest 80k IOPs dropping to 47k going from 6Gbps to 3Gbps - but then compared to the jump from a 7.2k HDD at ~100 IOPS, is that seemingly significant difference actually a drop in the water? Obviously SATA3 would be lovely to have, but it's coming in at around a 30-40 premium for motherboards with SATA3 and USB3, which I'd rather spend going to 8Gb of RAM from 4Gb.

    The options I'm looking at are based around Crucial m4 128Gb drives, rather than the Samsungs, but I can't find an equivalent table to the above for the Crucials.

    (on a related note: those Samsung SSDs are down to 77 for the 128gb and 143 for the 256gb, inc VAT, which is just astonishing value for the performance & reliability of those drives)
    Last edited by sonofsanta; 14th June 2012 at 03:50 PM.

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    Its a very noticeable difference I found. I put an SSD in my laptop at home, and then in my desktop (same SSD) and the difference in speed was considerable. Eg. Startup time on laptop was 25 sec. On desktop it is 8 sec tops.

    I'd be uneasy about buying out of date tech now - SATA3 has been out for several years now...
    Last edited by localzuk; 14th June 2012 at 03:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Its a very noticeable difference I found. I put an SSD in my laptop at home, and then in my desktop (same SSD) and the difference in speed was considerable. Eg. Startup time on laptop was 25 sec. On desktop it is 8 sec tops.

    I'd be uneasy about buying out of date tech now - SATA3 has been out for several years now...
    Believe me, I'm far from delighted about it - one quote has a motherboard with only a VGA output, it's another 9 to get the DVI port to connect natively to the new monitors, and DVI is a 13 year old standard - but a 32 premium for an H67 board over an H61 board just to get those SATA ports and USB3 is difficult to justify. I'm trying to get a few more computers out of the money than I planned to get (and therefore requested funds for), so it's a tough one. If it was a 10 premium then I'd go for it without question.

    I suppose I could drop the 8Gb of RAM back to 4Gb, which would counteract the cost increase for SATA3... but with Windows 7's clever caching stuff, which would make the bigger difference in performance, bearing in mind that the RAM upgrade is cheaper than the mobo upgrade? (These PCs are going into the main IT teaching rooms, by the by, so Creative Suite and video editing and other fun stuff)

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    RAM is easier to fix later if it becomes an issue and the lack of it is more likely to be covered up by the SSDs, it will put more wear on them though. Motherboards are definatly a key component which you want to get right first time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    RAM is easier to fix later if it becomes an issue and the lack of it is more likely to be covered up by the SSDs, it will put more wear on them though. Motherboards are definatly a key component which you want to get right first time.
    ...is a fair point.

    You lot don't make this easy do you :/

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