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General Chat Thread, Pay Rise in General; Originally Posted by Skoggmeiger To talk about 6 figure sums is ridiculous. Is 80k + "generous" benifits not "looking towards" ...
  1. #31


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    Re: Pay Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Skoggmeiger
    To talk about 6 figure sums is ridiculous.
    Is 80k + "generous" benifits not "looking towards" 6 figures? A quick search of what i want to be doing brought up half a dozen £80k and obviously them type of jobs arnt advirtised as much. Plus hes got a million differant jobs to choose from in "IT".

    Isnt my fault if you have low expectations of yourself



    And my point was hes *in* a career now, if you actually read my post you'd see all you've done is repeat what i said. Going from shelf stacker to *proper* management will take a while, technician to NM, Network designer, Web designer, etc wont.

  2. #32
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    Re: Pay Rise

    I started out as an IT Tech' under the Network Manager in September '05. I was term-time only £17k pro-rata to about £14k. I applied for the job basically because I had dropped out of uni and needed a steady income to start paying off some of my heinous debts.

    After 9 months in the job I was aware that the NM was applying for other jobs and quickly she was offered (and took) another job at a different school in the city.

    The Head-Teacher asked if I was "up for taking over the role". Obviously I agreed and quickly took over responsibility for support to the whole network. Not only did I do this I implemented many things that my previous boss had never even realised existed and improved the existing network considerably.

    My hard-work and professional attitude were well appreciated by the staff - but it wasn't reflected in my pay, which had not moved since my tech days - apart from I was working full-time so I was no longer pro-rata (this is not a "pay rise" as the School Business Manager was trying to have me believe at one point!)

    I am not a member of a Union (though I am going to join Unison) and so had to push for the rise on my own. I wrote letters to all the people in school that it concerned Business Manager, Deputy Head, Head of Curriculum of ICT (who still has a say on the network) and Head-Teacher. Once they came back with an unsatisfactory offer I pushed it to the council and got Job Evaluated.

    I've ended up on the top of scale 6 - around £22.5k which I'm pretty happy with. But there's no chance that I'll have industry training provided as they helped the last NM gain her CCNA and she instantly used that to move away, so they wary of the same thing happening. This leads me to the conclusion that career progression will only come about if this attitude changes or I move on in the future.

    So what I am saying is - push every avenue you can. If that involves getting in to Unison, do it. Send letters/e-mails to your line-manager and their line-manager and their line-manager until it gets to the HT. If that doesn't turn anything up go to your union or the HR department at the council.

    They need to be aware of your displeasure as it's nobody else's job to make sure you feel you are being paid enough for the work you do.

  3. #33


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    Re: Pay Rise

    ^ Just train for a CCNA in your own time mate. Its really not that hard. Just get a book, find *cough* an IOS and heres a cisco router emulator http://www.ipflow.utc.fr/index.php/Cisco_7200_Simulator

  4. #34

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    Re: Pay Rise

    Just a thought from an ex computer engineer headhunter/recruitment consultant.
    If you want to bring up the question of pay, do so officially and with all the evidence to back you up (as mentioned already)
    NEVER try to hold management to ransom by threatening to move if you don't get the money.
    This may work once, but you will be a marked man and your future could be very restricted.
    People do not like being blackmailed - it is short-sighted and unprofessional.

  5. #35

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    Re: Pay Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky
    Quote Originally Posted by Skoggmeiger
    To talk about 6 figure sums is ridiculous.
    Is 80k + "generous" benifits not "looking towards" 6 figures? A quick search of what i want to be doing brought up half a dozen £80k and obviously them type of jobs arnt advirtised as much. Plus hes got a million differant jobs to choose from in "IT".

    Isnt my fault if you have low expectations of yourself



    And my point was hes *in* a career now, if you actually read my post you'd see all you've done is repeat what i said. Going from shelf stacker to *proper* management will take a while, technician to NM, Network designer, Web designer, etc wont.
    At what point did I suggest I have low expectations of myself?

    I did actually read your post. If you had read mine, you would have reached the conclusion that I was suggesting that anyone with enough aspiration and knowledge can reach 6 figure sums, even those that are currently stacking shelves. However, for the vast majority of people, that is only a pipe dream, otherwise the national average salary would not be around the £22k mark would it?

    Having high expectations is one thing, having realistic expectations is another.

    Can you please enlighten us as to the timescales involved in moving from flipping burgers to management compared to changing toner cartridges to earning 6 figure sums, or did you just make this up?

  6. #36

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    Re: Pay Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Skoggmeiger
    Quote Originally Posted by Friez

    At the end of the day, I can't do the tech thing for all of my life, I'm going to have to make a move sometime. Simple maths tells us that low pay + Rising House Costs and Taxation = No chance of getting a house until one is about 70 years old...

    If I want a place of my own I have to move on, and I'd imagine that a lot of other people in the same situation as people on this sort of pay scale are considering it too.
    Wait until the crash mate. Don't be fooled by the "Houseprices only ever go up" line. They are already unaffordable for folk earning higher salaries than us. Rent for a few more years.

    M4 Money supply is a joke
    Inflation is far higher than the government admits
    Chavs are still spending on plastic
    I could go on....

    All points to a recession, so the last thing you want is a grotty house that you thought you had to buy otherwise you'd miss the mythical "ladder", and are paying most of your take home pay on.

    Viva la revolution.

    Gone off on one there, sorry.
    Im glad theres someone else with my way of thinking!

    I currently want to move out and while I could just about afford a shared mortgage, Im desperately trying to avoid pressure from parents and friends to get one, I just want to rent

    Everyone seems adament everything is great and there will never be a crash but thats only because anyone in power would never admit we may be heading that way

    Seems to be too much eternal optimism that everything can keep going the way it is. But what goes up must come down

    Apologies for continuing the off-topicness

  7. #37
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    Re: Pay Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Skoggmeiger
    compared to changing toner cartridges
    I agree that you don't get something for nothing in this world, however I do think you downplay the importance of IT support staff. Some of us do mission critical stuff at pleb wage.

    Today one of our servers have just died. The Network manager is on holiday. Right now I am rebuilding the server (alongside being hammered from all sides for printers not working, internet down, blah blah blah).

    There are things that are mission critical to the school that reside on said servers. If I was ILL today. What would the school do? Many things done via the computer systems are a legal requirement. As it stands I'm the ONLY person in the entire building who is capable of rebuilding the server.

    We don't "just change printer toners". Some of us do important work.

  8. #38
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    Re: Pay Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by sidewinder
    Seems to be too much eternal optimism that everything can keep going the way it is. But what goes up must come down
    Not so. House prices are increasing becuase people are owning more houses at the top of the market. My partners parents have four or five they rent out and have been offered further mortgages of over £1000000 based on what they own now. They work normal jobs (social services and MOD housing) but can continue to buy housing driving further shortages.

    I don't think it's right but if I could do the same because I'd made money when everything rocketed in value I would. Sitting back and hoping for the market to collapse is going to get you anywhere.

    I bought a flat shortly after my 18th birthday, when my partner and I were both moped delivery drivers for Domino's Pizza earning under £10000 each. It's never impossible it just takes some drive - it's always very easy to just say "it can't be done!" but there are so many options, from moving out of area to part sharing - even buy to let is available at 100% or more...

    I hate that defeatist attitude.


    edit: Sorry I'm SO off-topic

  9. #39
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    Re: Pay Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by sidewinder
    Seems to be too much eternal optimism that everything can keep going the way it is. But what goes up must come down
    I'd say house prices will constantly go up.
    Just like any market its all about supply and demand. When there is more demand than there is supply prices will soar. And soar they will while there are people wanting to buy houses.

    If house prices drop any day soon though, i'll be sure to buy one straight off the bat, otherwise I'm not going to give myself any false optimism that prices will take a nosedive.

  10. #40
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    Re: Pay Rise

    Friez - I was quoting sidewinder!

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    Re: Pay Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by gwendes
    Friez - I was quoting sidewinder!
    I know, copy pasted the wrong bit of code ops: , fixed now though

  12. #42

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    Re: Pay Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Friez
    Quote Originally Posted by Skoggmeiger
    compared to changing toner cartridges
    I agree that you don't get something for nothing in this world, however I do think you downplay the importance of IT support staff. Some of us do mission critical stuff at pleb wage.

    Today one of our servers have just died. The Network manager is on holiday. Right now I am rebuilding the server (alongside being hammered from all sides for printers not working, internet down, blah blah blah).

    There are things that are mission critical to the school that reside on said servers. If I was ILL today. What would the school do? Many things done via the computer systems are a legal requirement. As it stands I'm the ONLY person in the entire building who is capable of rebuilding the server.

    We don't "just change printer toners". Some of us do important work.
    Don't think you got the gist of my post.

  13. #43

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    Re: Pay Rise

    Been here 3 year this september, not on a great deal, just over 12k the experience here has been more valuable, when i started we had just got the maths and computing college status, so lots of money has been given to us to improve the infrastructure. Just waiting now for my girlfriend to finish her Masters at leeds trinity & all saints uni, then i can figure out where to move next.

    Samson, for now i think you would be pushing your luck asking for more money. earn the respect first, make a note of improvements you have made etc, then either try appllying for a pay rise or change job. dont change job too soon as that will look terriable on your CV and the employee will want to know why the sudden change.

  14. #44
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    Re: Pay Rise

    I second bishopsgarthstockton comments. AS someone stated earlier, most posts in IT now require 2 Years minimum of experience. Stick with what you have for at least a year. Get known more in the higher echelons of the staff, get someone senior / upper management to support you as well.

    Definitely record all the aspects of improvements done inside the school on your side of things. Get one of those big books to record all your daily jobs in so you have evidence to back you up.

    Join UNISON now. Don't leave it, it will save your bacon one day.

    When you do apply for a pay rise, write out all the extra jobs you do against what you did when you started, be polite, put examples in of what other people doing your job are being payed in both the public and private sectors. Basically, gather as much evidence as possible.

    But, applying for a pay rise after 5 months is really not good. Once a year when the pay review comes up, but not in your first year.

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