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General Chat Thread, 8 years for cold blooded murder. Pathetic. in General; This country is going to the dogs: BBC News - London riots: Darrell Desuze detained for Richard Bowes killing...
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    mattx's Avatar
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    8 years for cold blooded murder. Pathetic.


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    CHR1S's Avatar
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    I started to read the article, hit the man who fell and hit his head. Wasn't intended to kill him blah blah...

    The judge, Mr Justice Saunders, said he took into account the teenager's previous guilty pleas to burglary and violent disorder at William Hill, Tesco Express, Blockbuster and Fatboys Thai restaurant on the same night.
    WTF!?!

    He pleaded guilty to breaking and entering, arson and theft so he went easy on him for manslaughter?

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    Diello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattx View Post
    This country is going to the dogs
    Going? I think it's already gone.

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    Netman (18th April 2012)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diello View Post
    Going? I think it's already gone.
    Agreed, theres another article in the Sun I think it is, man broke a childs leg while abusing his mother and only got a few days prison time 1 day more than it took the child to be released from hospital.

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    aerospacemango's Avatar
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    Ok...so I'll play devil's advocate on this one....

    Regardless of pleading guilty to other charges, the manslaughter charge is a different case. The fact that he hit the man, who then fell and banged his head (causing his death) means that a murder charge is not appropriate. Had it been a pre-meditated attack, then murder would certainly have been the charge.

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    Not appropiate maybe - this thug will be out in 3 years and claiming benefits and most probably robbing old folk.

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    DT2
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    It disturbs me that the arsonist who burnt down the store in Croydon got 11 years, and this guy (who was responsible for the death of a bystander) got only 8.....

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    ButterflyMoon (18th April 2012)

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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    Ok...so I'll play devil's advocate on this one....

    Regardless of pleading guilty to other charges, the manslaughter charge is a different case. The fact that he hit the man, who then fell and banged his head (causing his death) means that a murder charge is not appropriate. Had it been a pre-meditated attack, then murder would certainly have been the charge.
    He still murdered some one?.. When will people learn you knock some one out standing up what are they going to fall on? a soft bean bag?

    Sorry still murder in my eyes, people dont think more than two seconds in front of them and wonder "Why me". He set out to seriously hurt the guy without regarding his health or what happened next. Think its time people like this got sent down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    Ok...so I'll play devil's advocate on this one....

    Regardless of pleading guilty to other charges, the manslaughter charge is a different case. The fact that he hit the man, who then fell and banged his head (causing his death) means that a murder charge is not appropriate. Had it been a pre-meditated attack, then murder would certainly have been the charge.
    There's a long standing aspect of any legal case called 'Mens Rea', basically 'guilty mind'. The explanation of this is quite simple - if you should reasonably know that your actions can lead to something happening (eg. if you set fire to a piece of paper at a petrol station, it should be reasonably known that the entire place could go up), then you have 'guilty mind'.

    In this case, every reasonable person knows that if you punch an old man in the head, he's going to fall over and hit himself on the floor.

    That alone makes it murder in my mind. 8 years is pathetic.

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    Agreed, people need to take responsibility and accept the consequences for their actions, if they've ended up killing someone by punching them then it's still murder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    There's a long standing aspect of any legal case called 'Mens Rea', basically 'guilty mind'. The explanation of this is quite simple - if you should reasonably know that your actions can lead to something happening (eg. if you set fire to a piece of paper at a petrol station, it should be reasonably known that the entire place could go up), then you have 'guilty mind'.

    In this case, every reasonable person knows that if you punch an old man in the head, he's going to fall over and hit himself on the floor.

    That alone makes it murder in my mind. 8 years is pathetic.
    But how can anyone KNOW that he is going to bang his head, suffer brain damage, and die?

    Yes, thugs should be banged up, and for as long as possible, but you have to take everything into account.


    Agreed, people need to take responsibility and accept the consequences for their actions
    Sadly this has been missing from life in general for many years....

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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    But how can anyone KNOW that he is going to bang his head, suffer brain damage, and die?

    Yes, thugs should be banged up, and for as long as possible, but you have to take everything into account.
    That's not how the law works. If your actions could likely have that effect, if a reasonable person could expect it to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    That's not how the law works. If your actions could likely have that effect, if a reasonable person could expect it to happen.
    So then, how likely is that to happen?

    If it really was "likely" then surely there would be many, many more deaths each weekend from fights in town centres?

    The unfortunate death of the man was, i would argue, not a likely result of punching him. What if he'd had a hereditary weak spot in his skull?

    I'm not here to defend the actions of a thug, but to defend the law's right to charge and convict on manslaughter, rather than murder.

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    To my mind dead is dead no matter how the little thug did it or intended it to happen. IF he had not attacked the old man he would in all probability still be alive today. As for jail time he caused the death of a human being so should not get out!! 8 years is way too short a sentence. You can bet the old guys family will be suffering long after that sick excuse for a human being is released from jail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    So then, how likely is that to happen?

    If it really was "likely" then surely there would be many, many more deaths each weekend from fights in town centres?

    The unfortunate death of the man was, i would argue, not a likely result of punching him. What if he'd had a hereditary weak spot in his skull?

    I'm not here to defend the actions of a thug, but to defend the law's right to charge and convict on manslaughter, rather than murder.
    To me, it seems perfectly reasonable that punching an elderly man in the face will have a likely outcome of that man falling down. I would also think that it is a distinct possibility that he could hit his head when he does so, which could cause death.



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