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General Chat Thread, Life under the Tories: don't say you weren't warned in General; Originally Posted by broc One thing that cannot be disputed; we are all governed now by a Government that nobody ...
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    teejay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post

    One thing that cannot be disputed; we are all governed now by a Government that nobody voted for......
    Actually, we did. The party with the most votes and seats won were the Conservatives, the Lib Dems stated quite categorically before the election that in the event of a hung parliament they would attempt to form a coalition with the party with the biggest mandate, which they did.

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    j17sparky (28th March 2012)

  3. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    At what point, in the future, will they put an "Abstention" on the voting form? Make it compulsory to vote and then see what the score is?

    I'm guessing that we may get a different view of elections if that was allowed to happen....
    Totally agree, but the 'Abstention' should be 'None of the Above' and if 'None of the Above' wins then there should be a re-election in that constituency none of the previous candidates able to stand.

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    sted (28th March 2012)

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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    If the Country was better off after 18 years of Thatcherite Tory rule, why did the electorate kick them out?
    The economy was good but it was scandal after scandal with the Tories at the time. Barely a week went by without some extra marital affair or cash for questions and whatnot.

    And the whole regime was tired and stale, the country was ready for a change. The Tories needed time in opposition to re brand and change. And for a time it was a change of good. But then the honeymoon period ended.

    But there is an issue with certain people having problems with their political memories. They see Thatcher as the ultimate evil who stole milk (yet Labour did it first, funny how nobody remembers that). They also remember the miners strike, but don't remember the problem about UK coal being too sulphurous, and quickly forgot how Brown was one of the most disliked PMs in recent times, ID cards, PFIs and BSF and so on.

  6. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbo View Post
    it was scandal after scandal with the Tories at the time. Barely a week went by without some extra marital affair or cash for questions and whatnot.
    Same old Tories then? It didn't take them long to get back to their old tricks.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    Same old Tories then? It didn't take them long to get back to their old tricks.......
    Let he who casts the first stone etc: BBC News | UK POLITICS | Pressure mounts over Ecclestone cash

    What you have to remember is that business, particuarly big business will support whoever it thinks is going to get in power next. You can go back theough the BBC news site and see exactly teh same thing going on between all the parties. When the Conservatives were voted out in 97 one of the primary reasons was because there was personal scandal after personal scandal (and the fact that they had stagnated as a ruling party which happens to all of them in the end), where as when Labour were voted out it was becoming political scandal after political scandal (and stagnation).

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    Went to uni with the guy that made that site. He ran for student union president for a laugh (as a pirate!) but ended up winning

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    Ultimately, very few people get the Government they voted for - certainly nowhere near the majority. Governments tend to average considerably less than 40% of the overall vote, which means the majority of people who voted didn't vote for them. People tend to vote by bias or trend 'It's time for a change' rather than policies. My view of politicians has diminished enomously over the years, and the cynic in me now believes the majority have the following priorities: self, sponsors, party, with the public trailing in last. The longer a Government is in power the more likely its good vs bad barometer is liable to even out; they all tend to do a bit of both, but they are all stymied by public expectations: we want everything, but we don't really want to pay for it, thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    Same old Tories then? It didn't take them long to get back to their old tricks.......
    And Labour didn't take long to follow suit when they gained power.

    BBC News - Labour suspends three ex-ministers over lobbying claims

    Three former ministers have been suspended from the Parliamentary Labour Party "for bringing it into disrepute".

    Stephen Byers, Patricia Hewitt and Geoff Hoon are under investigation over their apparent willingness to help a lobbying firm in return for cash.



    The thing is you can do this tit-for-tat arguing between parties endlessly (like with the milk thing), that's politics for you.

    But there are some good politicians out there. My former local MP spent years tirelessly doing local work and in every newsletter never bothered to put in any nasty stories about his rivals, even though they constantly threw muck around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbo View Post
    But there are some good politicians out there. My former local MP spent years tirelessly doing local work and in every newsletter never bothered to put in any nasty stories about his rivals, even though they constantly threw muck around.
    I only ever met one MP - good old Norman Tebbitt. What a reputation that bloke had. But my grandparents were looking to move down to Wiltshire to be close to family, and because my nan was disabled he refused to see them in his surgery and instead went to their house. He did that 3 times altogether, and he worked hard to get them the move they wanted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    Same old Tories then? It didn't take them long to get back to their old tricks.......
    Since you have such a short memory, allow me to refresh yours about the sleaze that positively FLOWED from the Labour party:

    1997 - Bernie Eccelstone donation, election fraud (Fiona Jones MP)
    1998 - Robin cook nobbing his secretary, lobbying scandal 1, Peter Mandelson's mortgages, lobbying scandal 2, Nick Brown MP hiring rent boys, Lord Irvine's £650,000 redecotration of his office, Ron 'Shagger' Davies.

    I can do the next 12 years if you like, but that's just a taster. Or, if you prefer you can buy "The Big Red Book of New Labour Sleaze" and remind yourself of those halcyon days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster View Post
    Since you have such a short memory, allow me to refresh yours about the sleaze that positively FLOWED from the Labour party:

    1997 - Bernie Eccelstone donation, election fraud (Fiona Jones MP)
    1998 - Robin cook nobbing his secretary, lobbying scandal 1, Peter Mandelson's mortgages, lobbying scandal 2, Nick Brown MP hiring rent boys, Lord Irvine's £650,000 redecotration of his office, Ron 'Shagger' Davies.

    I can do the next 12 years if you like, but that's just a taster. Or, if you prefer you can buy "The Big Red Book of New Labour Sleaze" and remind yourself of those halcyon days.
    You could do the same about the Tories before Labour, then what Labour did before the Tories and keep going round and round in circles instead of discussing the actual points.

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    aerospacemango (28th March 2012)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblacksheep View Post
    You could do the same about the Tories before Labour, then what Labour did before the Tories and keep going round and round in circles instead of discussing the actual points.
    Easily summed up in code -

    10 PRINT "Tories are toffs out for themselves"
    20 PRINT "Labour bankrupt the country"
    30 GOTO 10

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    Same old Tories, blaming Labour........

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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    Same old Tories, blaming Labour........

    So if we object to Labour criminality and theft, we're Tories? I suppose it was inevitable that someone so clearly incapable of thinking beyond binary would end up in IT.

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    Gibbo (29th March 2012)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblacksheep View Post
    You could do the same about the Tories before Labour, then what Labour did before the Tories and keep going round and round in circles instead of discussing the actual points.
    I was making a very specific point here. That point was that claiming that Labour were pure as the driven snow and were only 'corrupted' later is nonsense when you look at the corruption and criminality which defined their administration from the start.

    Anyway, what was the point of the discussion? Wasn't it that Der Torays Are Evul? I hardly think it's worth 'discussing' that, since it's the product of the Guardian. We might as well pull up an editorial by the Sun and discuss it since it's of the same intellectual calibre.



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