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General Chat Thread, Life under the Tories: don't say you weren't warned in General; Originally Posted by witch I love all this "It's the last Labour government's fault" Anyone remember the Tory government BEFORE ...
  1. #31

    aerospacemango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    I love all this "It's the last Labour government's fault"
    Anyone remember the Tory government BEFORE that?
    Now that was a walk in the park......


    (as for the cuts - stop cutting the wrong things and STOP giving money (other than to charities who work in the enviroment) to countries like India who can afford their own nuclear weapons and so are hardly poor.
    There are many countries that are deserving of our help. India isn't one of them IMHO
    That'll save a few quid)
    EVERYONE seems to forgotten those shysters......

    They ran the country into the ground for 18 years....it was always going to be tough for the next Labour government after that.

    Of course, they (Labour) didn't help themselves towards the end.....

  2. Thanks to aerospacemango from:

    witch (28th March 2012)

  3. #32

    teejay's Avatar
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    We've had bad governments all the way since the late 60's/early 70's, doesn't matter what flavour. The only common factor in that time is the power grab by the EU which has made our government pretty pointless anyway. We now either need to become the United States of Europe or leave the EU to sort the current mess out.

  4. #33

    Dos_Box's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    EVERYONE seems to forgotten those shysters......

    They ran the country into the ground for 18 years....it was always going to be tough for the next Labour government after that.

    Of course, they (Labour) didn't help themselves towards the end.....
    I could argue the point that the country was already in the ground when they took over in 79. Even the IMF had to bail us out in 76 and it was on the cards they wouldn't do it a second time.
    The Conservatives are the nasty medicine we all have to take after several years partying with Labour. It doesn't mean what they do, or how they go about it it right, or even 'fair' (I hate that phrase being used by politicians), but the fact remains we (the UK as a country) couldn't go on as we have been doing since 1997. There was no money left. At all, and considering the only money politicians have is our money and they have a deficit it is to us they will come and claw more back from.

  5. #34

    localzuk's Avatar
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    The thing that annoys me about this is - if the governments of the world could all agree, by treaty, to put in place, say, a 0.5% financial transaction tax, we could basically get rid of income tax entirely... But no one country, or group of countries could do it without the agreement of all others. Otherwise, it'll just mean banks all move to countries without that charge.

  6. #35


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    does bank money (other than wages) actually matter though its all made up paper money that in theory means something but is actually worthless?

  7. #36

    jinnantonnixx's Avatar
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    Money itself is worthless; it's a notion.

    Interestingly, it started out with early bankers who issued receipts for gold deposits. People started trading these receipts instead of the gold (or whatever else was deposited), and money started. The most amazing thing followed, whereby the bankers issued more money than they had in the safe, fueled by the demand for credit. As long as there was no "run" on the bank, this worked and is still working today.




    We trust money as a unit of commodity; we all subscribe to the notion that it has value.
    it's a representation of debt.

    If money vanished, society could not function. If we vanished, money would simply vanish as it has no meaning outside of us.
    Last edited by jinnantonnixx; 28th March 2012 at 10:47 AM.

  8. #37


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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    EVERYONE seems to forgotten those shysters......

    They ran the country into the ground for 18 years....it was always going to be tough for the next Labour government after that.

    Of course, they (Labour) didn't help themselves towards the end.....
    Have a talk with 95% of people in the North who lived through the 80s, believe me when I say they haven't forgotten and I doubt very much they ever will. The look of overwhelming glee when people heard that Thatcher was ill...

    Only the other day my mate said the propergander quote passed down through the generations of "those bloody Tories". When I asked him why he didn't actually know why and resorted back to "in the 80s..." - neither of us are old enough to remember the 80s!

  9. #38

    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    The Conservatives are the nasty medicine we all have to take after several years partying with Labour.
    I wouldn't mind the nasty medicine so much if I'd been invited to this party that people keep talking about. In terms of my personal finances, things were pretty poor under Labour (with a slight improvement at the end when lower interest = lower mortgage). Under the Tories, things are going from bad to much, much worse; I'm now just waiting until they open the Poor Houses again.

    My personal take:

    Did Labour fumble the ball when they had it? Hell yes! Are some of them crooks? Of course! (I'm looking at you, Tory B. Liar). However, as a Party they seem to want to do some good for the "average" person, even if they do make a hash of it. On the other hand the Tories seem dedicated to creating a ruling elite with the rest of us knocked back to serf status.

  10. #39

    teejay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky View Post
    Have a talk with 95% of people in the North who lived through the 80s, believe me when I say they haven't forgotten and I doubt very much they ever will. The look of overwhelming glee when people heard that Thatcher was ill...

    Only the other day my mate said the propergander quote passed down through the generations of "those bloody Tories". When I asked him why he didn't actually know why and resorted back to "in the 80s..." - neither of us are old enough to remember the 80s!
    That's the problem, it's gone down in folklore that Thatcher was an evil b, but there was a lot more to it than that. Yes, parts of manufacturing and traditional industries were destroyed, but the blame for that isn't just in the governments court. You also need to look at the union barons who were up for a fight whatever the consequences, the management of the companies who weren't really flexible enough in dealing with globalisation and also the start of EU meddling (all the sell off of nationalised industries was down to the EU, loads more as well such as VAT increases). Was the country in a better position after 18 years of Conservative government, then yes it was, but with a lot of pain and damage along the way, a lot of which could've been avoided.

  11. #40

    broc's Avatar
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    If the Country was better off after 18 years of Thatcherite Tory rule, why did the electorate kick them out?

    You can ask the same question after New Labours reign came to an end.....

    One thing that cannot be disputed; we are all governed now by a Government that nobody voted for......

    The Conservatives 'conned' the Lib Dems into a coalition, Nick Clegg was so desperate for a taste of power he sold out his party........

    Meanwhile New Labour were probably relieved to have lost, because it was an election that nobody could win convincingly.

    We are run by a millionaires club now. The party of self-interest rules, with lib-dems increasingly embarrassed by their leaders, meanwhile not so New Labour sits on the sidelines feeling sorry for itself.

  12. #41

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    If the Country was better off after 18 years of Thatcherite Tory rule, why did the electorate kick them out?
    Because John Major was a wet blanket? Combined with people thinking that Labour saying 'we'll spend spend spend!!!' was a good thing?

  13. #42

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    One thing that cannot be disputed; we are all governed now by a Government that nobody voted for......
    This point!

    It infuriates me every time I think about it; in what kind of a democracy do the people get a government that not only weren't voted for but in fact didn't exist as a candidate! Of course it's obvious that we have a Tory government whatever spin they put on it, but they did not win the vote and should not be in power. Then of course there's the fact the House of Lords have final say on any laws being passed (over ride any votes) and the EU have their say too... so tell me, just what is my vote worth?

  14. Thanks to LosOjos from:

    aerospacemango (28th March 2012)

  15. #43

    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Because John Major was a wet blanket? Combined with people thinking that Labour saying 'we'll spend spend spend!!!' was a good thing?
    I don't think it was that. I can remember friends telling me that they were watching in groups that cheered every time a Tory seat fell. Now, I may have more left-leaning friends, but there are similar tales from across the country - including the sort of people who would normally be assumed to be Tory supporters. I don't remember hearing about an equivalent almost universal reaction at the last election.

    Unfortunately a combination of Labour getting it badly wrong, short voter memories, and the lack of any real choice in who to vote for has lead to another Tory Emperor.

  16. #44

    aerospacemango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    This point!

    It infuriates me every time I think about it; in what kind of a democracy do the people get a government that not only weren't voted for but in fact didn't exist as a candidate! Of course it's obvious that we have a Tory government whatever spin they put on it, but they did not win the vote and should not be in power. Then of course there's the fact the House of Lords have final say on any laws being passed (over ride any votes) and the EU have their say too... so tell me, just what is my vote worth?
    At what point, in the future, will they put an "Abstention" on the voting form? Make it compulsory to vote and then see what the score is?

    I'm guessing that we may get a different view of elections if that was allowed to happen....

  17. 3 Thanks to aerospacemango:

    LosOjos (28th March 2012), sted (28th March 2012), teejay (28th March 2012)

  18. #45

    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    At what point, in the future, will they put an "Abstention" on the voting form? Make it compulsory to vote and then see what the score is?
    Never. If they did, politicians might have to actually listen to the people they are paid to represent.

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