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General Chat Thread, ICT Out - Computing in! in General; Would that be a bad thing? It'd break with the familiarisation "I move to this point on screen and click" ...
  1. #46
    Sirbendy's Avatar
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    Would that be a bad thing? It'd break with the familiarisation "I move to this point on screen and click" routine, and possibly invoke Mr. Throught Process for a while, which is what seems lacking in a lot of ways..

    Not MS bashing - I have no issue with them. Just the fact that people are now of the mindset that "MS are everything".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirbendy View Post
    Would that be a bad thing? It'd break with the familiarisation "I move to this point on screen and click" routine, and possibly invoke Mr. Throught Process for a while, which is what seems lacking in a lot of ways..

    Not MS bashing - I have no issue with them. Just the fact that people are now of the mindset that "MS are everything".
    No it isn't a bad thing, it's just interesting to see what route schools will go down.

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    Thats the problem, although there are "other solutions" you could indeed make things much worse and not just for your own system but for the kids. We rarely have staff who come here who have dealt with other type of systems, in fact top of my head there has been only one who had never touched a PC/Windows before. She was a MAC user and this is the problem, if staff are coming here with basic know how of PC/Windows whats the point in teaching kids some thing different so they go out in the world not even prepared correctly. In the end they are the ones the schools are for: Students. No point teaching them E-Safety about a website/facilities rarely used, instead you teach them E-Safety about Facebook/webcams/Messengers which are widely used every where.

    I recently had to convert a word file from a program I had never seen before, perhaps we should use that just because "It's different".

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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    Thats the problem, although there are "other solutions" you could indeed make things much worse and not just for your own system but for the kids. We rarely have staff who come here who have dealt with other type of systems, in fact top of my head there has been only one who had never touched a PC/Windows before. She was a MAC user and this is the problem, if staff are coming here with basic know how of PC/Windows whats the point in teaching kids some thing different so they go out in the world not even prepared correctly. In the end they are the ones the schools are for: Students. No point teaching them E-Safety about a website/facilities rarely used, instead you teach them E-Safety about Facebook/webcams/Messengers which are widely used every where.

    I recently had to convert a word file from a program I had never seen before, perhaps we should use that just because "It's different".
    While Microsoft is the main user in education and workplace environments, with budget cuts coming, looking for free alternatives which are credible. This means something such as OpenOffice. Widely recognised as a good alternative to Microsoft Office. It could also push moves to ThinClient and terminal services or virtualisation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHiLL View Post
    While Microsoft is the main user in education and workplace environments, with budget cuts coming, looking for free alternatives which are credible. This means something such as OpenOffice. Widely recognised as a good alternative to Microsoft Office. It could also push moves to ThinClient and terminal services or virtualisation.
    Not only that, but if you can use OpenOffice you can use Microsoft Office, or just about any other package you care to name. It's only the current idea of teaching interfaces over basics that seems to be a problem.

    How many here can pick up a new system and be using it within a few minutes, due to familiarity not with the specific technology but an understanding of how interfaces and systems are put together? I'd imagine anyone who actually works in a technical role can do this comfortably. There's a reason techies never read the manual.

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    Formal announcement of a known initiative isn't it? For instance County ICT folk did a course specifically about the implications with added VS VB a couple of months ago.

    Suspect it will all end up as a political *nix [+whatever] vs. MS + VB thing, which is sad coz I don't think the real world is best represented by either.

    PS:
    It's aleady doomed: Computer games entrepreneur Ian Livingstone, an adviser to Mr Gove, envisages a new curriculum that could have 16-year-olds creating their own apps for smartphones and 18-year-olds able to write their own simple programming language.

    My emphasis. Spent a log time full-time s/w engineering stuff that worked and never felt the need, or found anything remotely like a need to write a programming language. The kind of folk who did were the ones I resented coz they always wrote the most ambitious, bloated, unpragmatic and ultimately seriously broken code.
    Last edited by PiqueABoo; 11th January 2012 at 06:08 PM.

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    This has been issued by DFE and is relevant to this thread:

    Link: ICT curriculum to be replaced by rigorous Computer Science - The Department for Education
    Last edited by DaveP; 11th January 2012 at 07:12 PM. Reason: Correct spelling mistake.

  8. 3 Thanks to DaveP:

    BatchFile (13th January 2012), JJonas (12th January 2012), sonofsanta (12th January 2012)

  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirbendy View Post
    Regardless, ANYTHING has got to be better than them being taught that an application is purely a GUI...*SNIP*
    That's the problem, we have had years of people being taught in this manner and where will the skills be to teach the advanced stuff? This new programme by the TDA had better be good because no-one in their right mind should think of starting a career in education right now, not with the large budget cutting axe that has been swinging back and forth over everyone's heads.

    Bar the occasional bright and excellent teacher, the best teachers should come from industry and pass their experiences on. Someone who has coded a phone app and forged their way in the business world will provide a far higher quality of teaching students to create such an app then someone who has jumped out of a degree, into teacher training and are just repeating the stuff they were taught a few years ago.

    I jumped from a degree program into support staff myself and sometimes look at my skills and think "How much better would these skills be if I had a few years in industry first?" :/

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    Mr.Ben's Avatar
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    I do worry where the skills to teach the advanced stuff now. The syllabus of the last 10 years has been

    Personally I don't think that ICT should ever have been a subject anyway, these are core skills should have been taught as part of other subjects (plus most kids could pass the ICT GCSE in primary school).

    The problem is that with the explosion of IT in the last 10 years many Teaching Staff are unprepared to teach even the basics.

    I think Computer Science should be an optional subject at GCSE and above.

    Discuss :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHiLL View Post
    So does this mean a move away from Microsoft services too, and a move to open source projects?
    Definitely not...

    blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2012/01/uk-cabinet-office-betrayal-of-open-standards-confirmed/index.htm

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    Will a Computer Science Technician get paid more than an ICT Technician?

  14. Thanks to laserblazer from:

    BatchFile (13th January 2012)

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    Quote Originally Posted by laserblazer View Post
    Will a Computer Science Technician get paid more than an ICT Technician?
    lmao. if your lucky they'll downgrade you to that of subject/science technician

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
    This has been issued by DFE and is relevant to this thread:

    Link: ICT curriculum to be replaced by rigorous Computer Science - The Department for Education
    "industry experts including Ian Livingstone – co-founder of Games Workshop" - much as I love me some Warhammer, I'd have thought his role in Eidos might be a bit more pertinent to the subject at hand...

    It looks like it's actually a devolution of subject content to the teacher at hand and away from ministers, which is brilliant and just the kind of thing we need across the board. The only worry is that some teachers are going to think "I can do what I'm like... I have the materials ready for the current curriculum... I'll keep doing what I'm already doing", but all in all, it looks pretty promising to me. No more needing lunchtime clubs to prop up an anaemic curriculum.

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    As much as things change, they stay the same. If the gov pushes for open source, sounds like they had a falling out with MS.

    We here will not be going Open Source for as long as my self and the current IS Manager is here, we had some one tell us we could save 100k a year through that (long story with this guy). End result was the Head now listens to far more what we say then ever before and everything goes through us.

    If every business switches to the likes of Open Office we will install it on every PC for students to get used to it but till that happens we stick to the far better much improved office 2010 thank you very much

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