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General Chat Thread, ICT Out - Computing in! in General; Originally Posted by mthomas08 That's fine then, I was under the impression they were just totally scrapping it. Just thought ...
  1. #16

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    That's fine then, I was under the impression they were just totally scrapping it. Just thought it was crazy, I could write a long list of jobs (even teaching) that use word processing, powerpoints etc.
    It is being scrapped, yes, but other subjects will still use those tools and therefore will need to include some teaching on how to do so. But rather than spending 6 weeks being taught how to use powerpoint, the student will be spending 6 weeks creating a presentation and being given guidance when they can't do something.

    Also, computing isn't *just* programming. It is far more than that. It is about understanding how computers work, rather than just using them. If the subject is being taught badly, or in a dry way, then that's the fault of the teachers and the school. The subject can be taught in a fun way, just like most things can, it just needs people to teach it that way.

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    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave.81 View Post
    The teacher who helps our students do their UCAS app's is being told that Uni's prefer students who have not been taught any programming either.
    That makes no sense... Even if you ignore the fact they've got a new skill, programming teaches a different way of thinking and problem solving.

    Why would Universities want people with little/no problem solving skills other than google and relying on other people...

    Plus, programming is hard [YMMV], so it shows they're smart if they can code properly.

  3. Thanks to X-13 from:

    TechMonkey (11th January 2012)

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    BatchFile's Avatar
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    I actually punched the air when I read that article....

    (Though I can see I may have to go back on to the timetable to teach some of it - I don't think our ICT staff will be 100% comfortable with it)
    Last edited by BatchFile; 11th January 2012 at 09:10 AM. Reason: rephrased in case ICT staff read this!

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    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    That makes no sense... Even if you ignore the fact they've got a new skill, programming teaches a different way of thinking and problem solving.

    Why would Universities want people with little/no problem solving skills other than google and relying on other people...

    Plus, programming is hard [YMMV], so it shows they're smart if they can code properly.
    I think some Unis would prefer students not to come to them with bad habits, and would prefer to mould them in their own ideal from day one. I know that getting an accounting degree is often a bad way to get a job in accounting, for example, as you aren't taught the company's methods.

    This perception may be related to the way ICT has been taught in the past, though, so hopefully will improve as the curriculum & level of teaching does.

  6. #20

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    I think some Unis would prefer students not to come to them with bad habits, and would prefer to mould them in their own ideal from day one. I know that getting an accounting degree is often a bad way to get a job in accounting, for example, as you aren't taught the company's methods.
    That stupid... Regardless of where you go, SOMEONE is going to think you're doing it wrong.

    Coders need their own style of coding. Like a signature of sorts.

  7. Thanks to X-13 from:

    BatchFile (11th January 2012)

  8. #21
    kernewek-sam's Avatar
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    It's going to be interesting to see what is included in this new computing curriculum, once the consultation is over.

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    mthomas08's Avatar
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    Well I still don't agree with this but if it works then good, if it improves the students ability to use computers and doesnt degrade what they learn then congratulations the government has actually done something right. If it doesn't work then I will be there to say "I told you so".

    I will also add, I did Business NVQ 2 and we learnt how to do letters correctly, data protection act (confidential info) not use word processor/powerpoint/excel etc. Then again this was back .... 11-12 years ago... showing my age.

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    I believe the conversation was that they preferred students to have done maths and physics than doing any type of computing so they didn't have eliminate all the bad habits that teachers have taught. I dont think being able to programme is a sign of being clever, it is about being accurate with what you are doing and being logical. The handful of students here who have shown any interest are by far not the most clever ones we have!

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    Okay - while this is a good thing, after all the curriculum should evolve with the changing world (and requirements therein), IT skills will still need to be taught.

    Sadly, at the moment, too many times I have seen ICT being taught by effectively whichever teachers 'put their hands up', and the IT skills of some staff leave a whole lot to be desired. Due to the width of it's use - IT should really be taught across the board, but not in the way of all sitting there following the boring instructions of whichever member of staff drew the short straw and has to teach "Word".

    Perhaps a little Word processor use in English, or indeed any time that the students are required to write on the computer, a little spreadsheet use in Maths, etc, etc.

    ICT lessons, unless actually doing something 'fun' have always seen to be (and lets face it, have), been boring. To be honest, aside from the more in-depth stuff - ICT lessons should be mostly a thing of the past, with the skills required being assimilated into other subjects.

    Okay, doing things that way will create a large amount of unhappy staff - as many of the staff that (to their own admittance) "Aren't very good with computers" are either scared of them, confused, don't really want to learn or are a combination of all three. For IT skills to be taught universally, then ALL teaching staff will need to be at a set baseline level.

    (with apologies to all ICT teaching staff that are members of an ICT Teaching Department)

  12. #25
    zag
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    Brilliant news!

    Although it has been nice seeing all the young teachers coming through with good Microsoft office skills

  13. #26

    tech_guy's Avatar
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    Call me a cynic, but this'll only lead to a haemorrhage of IT teachers from the profession as they move on to teach something easy like PE or cooking....

    ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_guy View Post
    Call me a cynic, but this'll only lead to a haemorrhage of IT teachers from the profession as they move on to teach something easy like PE or cooking....

    ;-)

    And? I'm struggling to see a problem with that... [Lighten up. It's a joke.]

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    SimpleSi (11th January 2012)

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    korifugi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_guy View Post
    Call me a cynic, but this'll only lead to a haemorrhage of IT teachers from the profession as they move on to teach something easy like PE or cooking....

    ;-)
    Why do I now have the mental image of an Ex-IT teacher ordering a load of RAM sticks to make the school football team run quicker???

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    Typical press coverage, the actual story is that Gove announced that he is starting a consultation that will not take effect until September 2014.

    I wish the press had been a bit more savvy, the big story is that Gove is trying to control the curriculum even though more and more schools are now academies and dont have to listen...

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Its all kind of a moot point anyway - academies can set their own curriculum. So, whatever the government says, academies can ignore.
    Academies always have the spectre of HM Inspection & will be punished severely if they don't deliver what the government consider core..... freedom of choice is a myth, even for academies. The Govt & especially Mr Gove are not about to get rid of goverment control of education, only local government.......

    I discussed this very point this morning with my HT; we are in the process of converting to an academy.

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