Photocopier Lease/Service Scam

[davypete]

Is anyone here stuck in the same boat as us with a company called DTS over your photocopier lease/service?

[NikChillin]

Is anyone here stuck in the same boat as us with a company called DTS over your photocopier lease/service?

Is that the one I have heard has high toner/service charges or ropes you in for several years?

[david_tulip]

Hi guys - I am not stuck in a DTS or LTM lease - or indeed any of the "Phoenix from the Ashes" companies that have or will no doubt rise from these organisaions (as they always do) - but I'd be happy to share my knowledge with you.

Nik your comment of the "high service/toner charges or ropes you in for several years" is somewhat vague - price is relative - what is a high service charge - I'd say (depending upon machine type, age, volumes used and probably more important(?) quality of service and level of SLA, whether dealer or direct manufacturer support) that education establishments would typically pay circa 4p for colour and .4p for mono - I guess with a 10% variation on that - I do hear of things much higher and sometimes much lower! In terms of being "roped in" I guess a finance agreement is typically between three and five years in length. There have of course been stories of Evergreen contracts (here on edugeek) from Danwood where the rental period doesn't start until you serve notice - so stories of leases that have people committed for much longer terms! I believe this agreement is a Managed Print Service - which is interesting as it is interchangeable with the terminology for the technology - these companies provide "Managed Print Services" so maybe a little sneaky in naming it as such.

I have always told people that they are buying an agreement first and foremost (BUYER BEWARE: check and know what you are signing), secondly a service and finally a piece of kit! It shouldn't be about price - it is about value. There is an argument that says if someone will pay £50m for Torres then he's worth £50m - I guess it's all relative - or in other words maybe he is if someone will pay £35m for Andy Carroll - as that is what the Liverpool Chairman based his spending on - he said "I will sell Torres for £15m more than I have to pay for Andy Carroll - so the winner - Newcastle and Demba Ba!!!

Sorry I digress to another love - footie. The love I refer to previously is trying to highlight "crooks" or unscrupulous individuals - it's a bit of a crusade of mine - I did set up a consultancy around it (here) but sadly it was not successful - it seemed people were happy to keep paying over the odds, or opting for things that were too good to be true, which Nik is what the chap was talking about here BBC News - Schools kit scam 'could cost schools millions'- see link to BBC 5 live investigation

Happy to share my knowledge / opinions if required.

All the best

David Tulip

[davypete]

Thanks for the 5 live link david, seems like there are much worse cases of this than us after reading that. hell of alot of money going down the pan there!

Good to know we are not the only ones out there trying to get out of this though.

Would be interesting to hear some other stories if anyone's got some to share.

[david_tulip]

There are some terrible situations out there - many of them are so embarassing that they do not want to talk about them!

I guy told me a story today of a similar time (late 80's I think) and a lease agreement which allegedly had a large amount of influence on a Bursar committing suicide somewhere in Essex!

I was thinking that I would be happy to host or be a part of a workshop or to discuss stories - because it does help if we know there are others in the "same boat" - because as long as we are in denial we cannot address this - there isn't necessarily any easy way out - sometimes there are "mistakes" by these dodgy individuals / companies and we can find loopholes - but it does need a business-head to look at and take an objective view - which often is to DO NOTHING or rather do something AT THE RIGHT TIME - because a lot of the issues here are caused by exponential costs of "rolling up" leases.

Do you think there would be mileage / interest in some face to face forums / workshops - war stories - explanations - advice on the tricks and scams?

[Heebeejeebee]

Do you think there would be mileage / interest in some face to face forums / workshops - war stories - explanations - advice on the tricks and scams?

Yes. I think everyone should be aware of the pitfalls of not thoroughly detailing their specifications and then reading the fine print and then getting the companies to actually do what you asked for in the first place rather than their often perverse interpretation of what you wanted. A salesman will tell you anything to get a contract signed then point at the small print (which may not have been read) to get out of actually delivering the goods.

I had this recently when a specific and rather unique requirement popped up in a project we were about to embark on. I asked the sales guy if it could be done and 'yes' was the answer. I later asked the same question and still got a yes. At the end of the meeting I asked again (because I'm like that ) and he said he'd confirm with his technical people and guess what! They came back and said it couldn't be done under any circumstances. My advice - always know exactly what you want and keep asking for it, build it into the specification and make them work for you and not the other way around.

HBJB