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General Chat Thread, D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-( in General; Well tomorrow (Friday1st) I should be finding out what my pay will be under the single status agreement. There's a ...
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    D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    Well tomorrow (Friday1st) I should be finding out what my pay will be under the single status agreement. There's a few things that worry me:

    1. the person they spoke to as part of the evaluation had very little knowledge, experience and far less duties and responsibilities compared to the other 9 Network managers in the county. Essentially he's the worst person they could have picked and the lowest paid by quite a bit (rightfully too).

    2. The council have as yet never sent me a contract that had the correct wage on it, 4 attempts over 15 months that I've refused to sign. Legally i'm fine as I have moved internally, technically I'm still covered under my previous contract. I can see them, however evaluating me under one of their 4 mysterious wages - all of them at least 5 grand less than I actually get.

    3. They say they spoke to 1 in 5 employees. Yet there's 10 network managers, they only spoke to one and they spoke to nobody at all at any of the 8 high schools I've asked (there are only 11 high schools). I'm really annoyed as I LOVE my job and had just compliled a huge list of work to do over the holidays. I've just got engaged and we'll be looking to get a large house and get married in 2009 which means a LOT of saving up. Effectively if they do freeze it and I face a large cut they'll end up losing me even though I want to stay.

    I've worked so hard over the past 14 months since starting there that I'll be gutted to leave all that hard work for someone else to come into and claim credit for in our review later this year. grr!

    It'll be interesting to say the least when I get my interview and my payment letter tomorrow from the head teacher. I've been asking around for suggestions of things to do if I get a pay freeze/cut. there include:

    1. Stand up and as I slowly unzip my fly say "this is going to hurt you far more than it'll hurt me."

    2. Hand over a brown envelope and say "I'm really sorry." then walk out. Of course it's an empty envelope..

    3. Put my bottom lip out and sulk, whenever anyone tries to comfort me "go limp" like a child does.

    4. Stand up, walk out but before I close the door mutter under my breath "I'll be back."

    5. Smile happily, say I enjoyed the joke and ask for the correct letter.

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    Re: D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmad
    Well tomorrow (Friday1st) I should be finding out what my pay will be under the single status agreement. There's a few things that worry me

    1. the person they spoke to as part of the evaluation had very little knowledge, experience and far less duties and responsibilities compared to the other 9 Network managers in the county. Essentially he's the worst person they could have picked and the lowest paid by quite a bit (rightfully too).

    2. The council have as yet never sent me a contract that had the correct wage on it, 4 attempts over 15 months that I've refused to sign. Legally i'm fine as I have moved internally, technically I'm still covered under my previous contract. I can see them, however evaluating me under one of their 4 mysterious wages - all of them at least 5 grand less than I actually get.

    3. They say they spoke to 1 in 5 employees. Yet there's 10 network managers, they only spoke to one and they spoke to nobody at all at any of the 8 high schools I've asked (there are only 11 high schools). I'm really annoyed as I LOVE my job and had just compliled a huge list of work to do over the holidays. I've just got engaged and we'll be looking to get a large house and get married in 2009 which means a LOT of saving up. Effectively if they do freeze it and I face a large cut they'll end up losing me even though I want to stay.

    I've worked so hard over the past 14 months since starting there that I'll be gutted to leave all that hard work for someone else to come into and claim credit for in our review later this year. grr!

    It'll be interesting to say the least when I get my interview and my payment letter tomorrow from the head teacher. I've been asking around for suggestions of things to do if I get a pay freeze/cut. there include

    1. Stand up and as I slowly unzip my fly say "this is going to hurt you far more than it'll hurt me."

    2. Hand over a brown envelope and say "I'm really sorry." then walk out. Of course it's an empty envelope..

    3. Put my bottom lip out and sulk, whenever anyone tries to comfort me "go limp" like a child does.

    4. Stand up, walk out but before I close the door mutter under my breath "I'll be back."

    5. Smile happily, say I enjoyed the joke and ask for the correct letter.
    Personally if you get a pay cut/freeze I would ask them for a Detailed breakdown on how they came to the decision, then take it along with a copy of your job description to your union rep(if you have one).

    I personally would "Stamp my feet" and make life as difficult as possible for all concerned if my pay were cut, but i'm an awkward git anyway.

    My local council is doing a job/pay review at the moment, sending out forms asking what we do etc etc, i'l be damned if I dont come out as underpaid lol.

    Good luck m8

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    Re: D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    You forgot "lie on your stomach and beat the floor with fists and feet."

    Have you taken union advice on this?

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    Re: D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmad
    2. The council have as yet never sent me a contract that had the correct wage on it, 4 attempts over 15 months that I've refused to sign. Legally i'm fine as I have moved internally, technically I'm still covered under my previous contract. I can see them, however evaluating me under one of their 4 mysterious wages - all of them at least 5 grand less than I actually get.
    Your council sound as efficient as our personnel department :-)

    Are you sure about the fact that you're still covered under your previous contract? I'm not a lawyer but one of the things I've heard in the past is that if you accept the salary each month then effectively you're accpeting the contract (unless you've explicitly rejected it)

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    Re: D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    Sadly it's all legal and above board - apparently. All I can say is I bet the gap between most managers and those they manage widens dramatically, they need large numbers of people to lose money in order to fund the boost they're giving to other staff so it'll be the little people who get it in the neck.

    Srochford - yeah I should be fine, although they have to put me on the network manager level I do have it in writing about my pay etc from the headteacher as part of my acceptance for the post.

    Sadly I can see a lot of strike action, 19% of people are facing pay freeze then in 4 years a pay cut (if it hasn't caught up). Everyone else is getting a pay rise of some kind, even if it's only tiny. I'm guessing they'll be trying to make the majority happy to keep the rest quiet, but I doubt the unions will be tricked by it.

    Narked off as I really like my job and would hate to be forced into leaving because someone else decided to devalue my work. What really gets me is that although we can appeal, everyone in our post in this region has to do it as a group, not on an individual basic. We can't compare our jobs with those in other councils either, essentially they're making it as difficult as possible to cause a fuss.

    If it's bad I'll simply work to rule, all of the advanced and heavy tech work that I'd got planned will be shelved and I certainly won't be working 10 hour days over the summer as I'd planned. They'll shoot themselves in the foot.

    Not going to get stressed about it, plenty of jobs out there - shame I like this one so much

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    Re: D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by srochford
    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmad
    2. The council have as yet never sent me a contract that had the correct wage on it, 4 attempts over 15 months that I've refused to sign. Legally i'm fine as I have moved internally, technically I'm still covered under my previous contract. I can see them, however evaluating me under one of their 4 mysterious wages - all of them at least 5 grand less than I actually get.
    Are you sure about the fact that you're still covered under your previous contract? I'm not a lawyer but one of the things I've heard in the past is that if you accept the salary each month then effectively you're accpeting the contract (unless you've explicitly rejected it)
    Unless he signs it, he hasn't agreed to it so legally he is not bound by the new contract(s).

    If he has new contracts shoved under his nose he can refuse to sign them. The employer has a choice to either continue with the old contract or make him redundant.

    Afterall if what you said above is legal then this situation would happen everywhere:

    Month 1) HI! Welcome to our company, you'll be earning 40k p/a and earning generous benefits.

    Month 2) We have a new contract for you, you'll now be earning 10k p/a and we cut the benefits. Have a nice day. P.S. No need for you to sign it, we're already docking your pay by 30k.

    If that is legal then I'll be absolutely flabberghasted.

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    Re: D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    Right pay is different but change in terms of contract can be enforced after 3 months even if you don't sign.

    So if contract changes to say you must perform a rain dance every day and not offer you more money say and you disagree and refuse to sign.

    After 3 months they can enforce the contract and you have three choices one resign, two accept contract, three get union etc to take it tribunal and argue that increase in role should have an increase in pay.

    Pay they can legally reduce it part of pay review scheme like op is going through in which case they have to prove that reduction is valid and inline and not a cost cutting excerise.



    Russ

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    Re: D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    It'll be interesting to say the least when I get my interview and my payment letter tomorrow from the head teacher. I've been asking around for suggestions of things to do if I get a pay freeze/cut. there include:
    That would be a certain Computer components website, with a nice blue background on the discussion forums wouldn't it?

    Sorry, off topic!

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    Re: D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveB_NI
    It'll be interesting to say the least when I get my interview and my payment letter tomorrow from the head teacher. I've been asking around for suggestions of things to do if I get a pay freeze/cut. there include:
    That would be a certain Computer components website, with a nice blue background on the discussion forums wouldn't it?

    Sorry, off topic!
    Indeed it would!

    Anyway got my results - pay frozen for 4 years, no cost of living increase, no increment increase. By then it should have caught up with my current pay level. They've rated the top of my job scale as £2200 less than I currently get.

    I'm right at the top of my grade as well so in effect after the 4 years I'll only ever get cost of living increases. That's the bit that's really annoyed me, I've effectively been told I'll never be worth more regardless of what I learn or the training I go on, it's impossible for me to be more valuable to the council.

    Headteacher is furious and has asked me to appeal in october, if that fails I think I'll ask him for a training budget that allows me to choose which courses I go on each year. If I knew each year I was going to have something to look forward too I'd probably be happy to stay for a good while. I love my job but in 4 years I will have a family to look after which might well change things!

    It could have been worse and in effect I don't have a pay cut until next april as I won't get anything then, however I will be furious if I find out those in the central IT department were put in the grade above me - they do 5 fixes a day (adobe reader installs, printer repairs, etc) which is about 2 hours work for most people if they include traveling time!

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    Re: D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by russdev
    Right pay is different but change in terms of contract can be enforced after 3 months even if you don't sign.

    So if contract changes to say you must perform a rain dance every day and not offer you more monet say and you disagree and refuse to sign.

    After 3 months they can enforce the contract and you have three choices one resign, two accept contract, three get union etc to take it tribunal and argue that increase in role should have an increase in pay.

    Pay they can legally reduce it part of pay review scheme like op is going through in which case they have to prove that reduction is valid and inline and not a cost cutting excerise.

    Russ
    Russ, my bold, but haviong been through a large amount of this recently (not in the education sector, but from a management perspective) this would count as a slam dunk contructive dismissal case.

    Under no circumstances whatsoever can an employer say to an employee that resignation is an option, without being wide up to contructive dismissal claims.

    According to the legal advice we've had even reducing a person's salary, and then they resign, could be solid grounds for contructive dismissal.

    I would have to say that most of the powers in this area are with the employee these days.

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    Re: D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    Sorry wasn't clear.

    No wasn't saying county say resign I am saying you have 3 options to deal with the problem resign (off your own back), take deal or take it tribunal.

    Also as been said before a head can bump you wage up as long as you take on an extra role of some kind.

    Russ

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    Re: D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    I thought it was 2 years Russ under Custom & Practice - where do you get 3 months from?!?

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    Re: D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by russdev
    Also as been said before a head can bump you wage up as long as you take on an extra role of some kind.Russ
    that's something he said straight away this morning, he'll push for an upgrade as I do look after our primary schools as well as the high school. Only 1 day a week but it counts as extra duties and responsibility.

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    Re: D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    1) you can appeal against the evaluation because the job that they evaluated to grade your post was not a fair representation. The evaluation process would have been agreed with the recognised trade union and an appeals process would have been published. I'm sure the trade union wouldn't have agreed to collective appeals only ! get a copy of the appeals process document.

    2) Four years protected salary is actually a good deal - this would have been negotiated by the union, so it sounds like the union know what they are doing!?

    3) the point that needs to be made to the LA is that the IT jobs are not generic, they are specific to the schools requirements.

    4) don't rely on what the HT tells you, regarding appeals - normally when your shown a new job description and salary you have a month to appeal - LA may be telling HT this to stall and prevent appeals. - again get a copy of the appeals process document it will be detailed in there, follow that document to the letter.

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    Re: D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

    The appeals process is outlined in a letter I've been given with my new contract, along with a statement telling me to either sign and return it by the 22nd or they'll send me a letter in september offering to "let me go".

    The unions haven't agreed to anything as yet, the council is pushing ahead and using the 4 year protected scheme as an carrot to keep us quiet - as it's better than a 3 year freeze. I'm guessing that a vast majority of people will be at the same wage after 4 years, mine will be close but it depends how much the cost of living rises are.

    I'll appeal on grounds that not only do I have more duties but I also have no technician, frankly if they gave me a technician I'd be over the moon but looking at it realistically I can't see that happening within 4 years at the speed the council works.

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