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General Chat Thread, Private Schools in General; Just out of intrest (may help the OP) do Private schools get Microsoft EES?...
  1. #31
    jamesfed's Avatar
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    Just out of intrest (may help the OP) do Private schools get Microsoft EES?

  2. #32

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    They can have EES but the smaller schools like mine have too many staff to make it viable.

    M$ define part time as 200 hours per year... Roughly 6 hours per week term time only.

    We have more qualifying staff than computers which makes EES more expensive for us than schools agreement or standard licensing!

    And, of course, we pay VAT on our licenses too.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    ... And specialist music, dance, art, drama, science, maths, language, etc teachers even in prep schools. This is the EES killer for us
    Cracking point!

    I got the payroll lady to give me the number of staff working more than xxx hours etc and I was blown away when the figure came back as 130! We only have 380 kids and 130 PCs!

    I love working in the independent sector. Prior to my current post I spent a very frustrating 2 years at a large state school up the road and prior to that 7 years at one of the largest/best independents in the country up in Manchester. I now feel more valued and appreciated and look forward to my line caught cod and chips every Friday in the canteen!
    Last edited by bodminman; 3rd December 2011 at 05:41 PM.

  4. #34

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    As @elsiegee40 has pointed out, Prep schools don't have anywhere near the sort of cash that senior Independents do. The Prep school I work for ranges from around 7,000 up to a maximum of around 11,000 per year. Those fees are inclusive of meals, after-school care, and trips - even residentials. The only 'extras' parents have to pay for are uniform, basic stationery (i.e. pens), and PE equipment if the pupils want their own rather than using the school kit.

    For us, EES did work out slightly cheaper than Schools Agreement - but not by anywhere near the sort of margin most state schools can expect. Still, its better than nothing. Remember that only staff who actually use a computer count - your cleaners probably work more than 200 hours a year, but you don't have to include them. In my experience resellers often don't know this, but this information was given to us personally at an Edugeek forum by the Education Business Manager for Microsoft UK in February, so I'm pretty sure its right.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    30,000 x 25 = 750,000.

    Three quarters of a million, per class, per year.

    Something doesn't add up.
    What doesn't add up is that the pupils are not paying per class, as in your equation - their 30k covers all their classes, not just one; therefore you maths should not be 30k x %class_size%, but 30k x %pupil_count%.

    Also, a figure like 30k says boarding school, so it also includes their food, heating, electricity, upkeep of boarding houses, staff for boarding hosues, etc. Then you need to factor in all the other staff which boarding schools have and day schools don't (night staff, house masters, nurses, additional catering staff, etc), plus all the specialist staff which schools of that ilk employ (sports coaches, music teachers, etc) and then the staff for subjects which aren't taught in other schools (more languages, Latin, wider choice of A-Level, etc). Beyond that, you need to add up the extra administrative and financial staff which private schools need to employ, as they can't pass anything to County.

    Suddenly, 30k per pupil doesn't seem like all that much...

  6. #36

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enjay View Post
    What doesn't add up is that the pupils are not paying per class, as in your equation - their 30k covers all their classes, not just one; therefore you maths should not be 30k x %class_size%, but 30k x %pupil_count%.
    That's what I meant.

    Not class as in English, Maths, Science, but Year+Teacher name [1D, 1E, 1S... etc]

    It would equate to the same thing. [I think...]

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by enjay View Post
    What doesn't add up is that the pupils are not paying per class, as in your equation - their 30k covers all their classes, not just one; therefore you maths should not be 30k x %class_size%, but 30k x %pupil_count%.

    Also, a figure like 30k says boarding school, so it also includes their food, heating, electricity, upkeep of boarding houses, staff for boarding hosues, etc. Then you need to factor in all the other staff which boarding schools have and day schools don't (night staff, house masters, nurses, additional catering staff, etc), plus all the specialist staff which schools of that ilk employ (sports coaches, music teachers, etc) and then the staff for subjects which aren't taught in other schools (more languages, Latin, wider choice of A-Level, etc). Beyond that, you need to add up the extra administrative and financial staff which private schools need to employ, as they can't pass anything to County.

    Suddenly, 30k per pupil doesn't seem like all that much...
    That is true but it is over 22 million per year for 750 kids, but thats why they "perform so well".

    i'm not for or against it, just my experience of friends who have come out of private education is that because they are institutionalized they come out and go off the rails for a few years becuase they have no real world experience.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryTechnician View Post
    For us, EES did work out slightly cheaper than Schools Agreement - but not by anywhere near the sort of margin most state schools can expect. Still, its better than nothing. Remember that only staff who actually use a computer count - your cleaners probably work more than 200 hours a year, but you don't have to include them.
    True, but... your site supervisor will have to be counted if they have use email, buy cleaning supplies online, etc. Similarly, the kitchen staff probably don't need counting, but the catering manager probably does. Also, two staff on an am/pm job share must both be counted. The real kick in the teeth with the headcount for EES is that it is anyone who works >200 hours per year and uses a computer, regardless of how many of those hours are actually spent at a computer. Therefore your peripatetic music teachers who type up pupil reports once a year must be counted (assuming you employ them of course).

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    i'm not for or against it, just my experience of friends who have come out of private education is that because they are institutionalized they come out and go off the rails for a few years becuase they have no real world experience.
    Tell me about it... They leave here, do a few years at OxBridge, then come back to teach!

    I'm against the system in the sense that we shouldn't need it; the State system should provide an education that could stimulate the minds of these kids, in classes where the disaffected aren't throwing chairs around because the don't understand (or want to understand) basic maths/English/whatever. There should be schools/classes where those kids can be taught in appropriate ways too. The problem is that a truly "Comprehensive" school does not fit the need. Nor does the entire system as it stands. Thus there is a need for places like this.

    The kids here (OK, most of them) would run rings around most of us intellectually. One of our better Physics teachers is a recent Army Air Corps helicopter pilot, and he dreads getting a class of scholarship boys.

  10. #40
    enjay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    I'm against the system in the sense that we shouldn't need it; the State system should provide an education that could stimulate the minds of these kids, in classes where the disaffected aren't throwing chairs around because the don't understand (or want to understand) basic maths/English/whatever. There should be schools/classes where those kids can be taught in appropriate ways too. The problem is that a truly "Comprehensive" school does not fit the need. Nor does the entire system as it stands. Thus there is a need for places like this.
    At what cost? The fact of the matter is that the State system can't afford to educate every child in the country, not even in classes where kids throw furniture let alone in the sort of classes you describe.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by enjay View Post
    At what cost?
    If you think education is expensive, try ignorance... How many schools do you think could be built and run for the cost of a new frigate (Frigates hunt submarines, how many of our enemies have submarines?) How about for the cost of two aircraft carriers? One of which will go straight into mothballs? Or bailing out banks, who then give huge bonuses to the very people who crippled them in the first place? Oh yes, we CAN afford good education, but will we?

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by bodminman View Post
    I now feel more valued and appreciated and look forward to my line caught cod and chips every Friday in the canteen!
    Ah yes, I forgot about the #1 reason why I prefer working here - lunch (and it is decent food) provided free every day

  13. #43

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    I have to say that our food is excellent too

  14. #44

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    There is no such thing as a free lunch. If I want to eat the boys' food, I have to sit at a table with them, and try to engage them in conversation... OK, if they are interested/ing, but a bunch of sulky 15/16 year olds... Nah, happy to buy my lunch!

    That said, the food can be very good indeed!

  15. #45
    enjay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidewinder View Post
    lunch provided free every day
    Doesn't that make it taxable? Just a thought...

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