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General Chat Thread, Public sector pay rises capped at 1% in General; I'd like to ask @ Flatpackhamster if he has a private pension or will he be relying on the state ...
  1. #76


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    I'd like to ask @Flatpackhamster if he has a private pension or will he be relying on the state pension when he retires?

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    JoeBloggs's Avatar
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    I think everyone should be happy they have a job with the number of unemployed, public or private sectors.

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    TechMonkey's Avatar
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    Don't forget the weasel words. 1% Cap. Not a 1% rise. So in fact they could actually give .75%, .5% or the magical 0%.

    Same with the pensions. The weasel words are anyone under £15,000 FTE will be exempt. That means a member of staff working 1 day a week in job a that would pay 15,000 if they did it full time will be deducted as if they were working full time. & they still aren't clarifying if that includes Pro-Rata workers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky View Post
    You even manage to change the message of your source to suit your argument.

    So degree level people don't deserve to earn more than unskilled workers? Yet they actually earn less than those of equal level in the private sector. Comparing like for like actually "proves" you are incorrect [by your own source]
    This made my eye start twitching a little. So there are only people with a degree and unskilled workers?

    Do they factor in professional qualifications or levels of experience in a role as well, or is it just a straight up comparison between the elite (those with a degree) and the common, unskilled workers?

    So a big reason why public does better overall is because they got rid of low paid job which the private sector took on.
    Yep - contracted out cleaning, support, service provision, financials, trash collection, administration, parking administration, road repair...

    What exactly does the public sector do that it hasn't contracted out? I'm not talking about the NHS and schools here - I'm talking about all those administrators.

    So in other words the public sector has a much fairer system with fewer low paid and fewer high paid workers.
    There's that twitch again. The lowest paid in the public sector are simply farmed out, bringing up the average salary. Good way to cook the books so your salary range looks higher.

    Had at least 20 jobs in the private sector thanks, this is my first job in the public sector. It is also my first job where I have been expected to work overtime for free or at single time, the first to take holidays at only certain times, the first where cost of living rises have been so few and far between, the first where there is only 1 or 2 rungs on the ladder...
    In support, you are generally better off in the private sector. I've no argument against that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBloggs View Post
    I think everyone should be happy they have a job with the number of unemployed, public or private sectors.
    I am happy I have a job (and I'm actually treated quite fairly by it) but I can certainly see why people who are being taken advantage of would complain. They should, nothing'll change unless people do something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesb View Post
    This made my eye start twitching a little. So there are only people with a degree and unskilled workers?

    Do they factor in professional qualifications or levels of experience in a role as well, or is it just a straight up comparison between the elite (those with a degree) and the common, unskilled workers?
    Of course not, I don't have a degree but I'm not unskilled. The quote also included "high skilled jobs". I simply used degree as a way of comparing like for like, I couldn't be bothered to go into depth with the answer as it's getting pointless.




    Yep - contracted out cleaning, support, service provision, financials, trash collection, administration, parking administration, road repair...

    What exactly does the public sector do that it hasn't contracted out? I'm not talking about the NHS and schools here - I'm talking about all those administrators.
    Not every dept. in every council has contracted out everything you said there. But here you go Careers A-Z « Careers in local government – LGcareers



    There's that twitch again. The lowest paid in the public sector are simply farmed out, bringing up the average salary. Good way to cook the books so your salary range looks higher.
    Not every one is but a lot have been, which is exactly the point, and why it is pointless to say public sector get paid more than private.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laserblazer View Post
    I'd like to ask @Flatpackhamster if he has a private pension or will he be relying on the state pension when he retires?
    Ask away. By the time I retire, the state pension will be a distant memory for my generation. I'm not prepared to rely on the private pensions scheme either. I'm going to rely on savings. I've been self-reliant all my life and I don't plan to start being dependent on anyone, ever.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster View Post
    Ask away. By the time I retire, the state pension will be a distant memory for my generation. I'm not prepared to rely on the private pensions scheme either. I'm going to rely on savings. I've been self-reliant all my life and I don't plan to start being dependent on anyone, ever.
    Don't delude yourself into thinking that personal savings are some golden egg - they can just as easily be affected by all the strife as everything else. Inflation can ruin savings. Low interest rates. Taxation. You name it, it can happen.

    Your only 'guaranteed' saving is through something like precious metals - as they're only ever going to become more rare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    When you're working in education, this make sense.

    The students bring in every disease known to man, which you're going to get. You need more sick days because you're going to get sick more.
    What's the difference between an office of 5,000 workers and a secondary school? Those workers mostly have kids, who spread the germs around their parents.

    @localzuk - The new "Godwin's law for Lefties" includes the phrase 'Daily Mail'. It's an admission that your argument is weak, hence your attempt to caricature my views.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster View Post
    What's the difference between an office of 5,000 workers and a secondary school? Those workers mostly have kids, who spread the germs around their parents.

    @localzuk - The new "Godwin's law for Lefties" includes the phrase 'Daily Mail'. It's an admission that your argument is weak, hence your attempt to caricature my views.
    Ok, ignore the Daily Mail bit, answer the rest. Don't pick and choose, it makes your argument even more weak.

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    You would need a very good, secure, well paid job for a very long time to be able to retire on savings alone; for a start you cannot rely upon savings providing much of a return, just look at the interest rates on offer now for people with savings accounts. Savings rates do generally improve when inflation goes up, but seldom keep pace so money sat in the Bank slowly depreciates.

    If you want a better return on savings, you have to start taking risks & rely upon the Financial Sector to provide a good return.... however ask the shareholders of Northern Rock how they feel about their investments?

    You cannot even rely upon buying property to provide a 'safe' haven for savings.... if you happen to need liquidity at a time when property values are dropping you can lose out too.... just ask people who are in negative equity at present, or those who have bought several properties intent upon renting?

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    What's the difference between an office of 5,000 workers and a secondary school? Those workers mostly have kids, who spread the germs around their parents
    The difference is that most people who work with adults will get support if they come to work feeling poorly. I felt rough last week. I had a really sore throat, headache and felt sick. I was able to hide myself away and a couple of times I had to take a short cut through classrooms to get to the loo. There's no way I could have survived an hour in a classroom trying to teach. Adult workers tend not to get as close up to each other as teachers do with their pupils.

    That said, if you plan to be off long term, then education is the place to be.

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    Is it just me, or has the government played a blinding 'divide and rule' stroke?

    All the proles are squabbling amongst themselves and the pressure's off the government. Public sector vs private sector. Even Clarkson's put his big foot in it.

    I've said it before, but the MPs in the government work in the public sector.
    Last edited by jinnantonnixx; 1st December 2011 at 09:04 PM.

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    What's the difference between an office of 5,000 workers and a secondary school? Those workers mostly have kids, who spread the germs around their parents.
    Children have weaker immune systems due to them not being subjected to as many dieseses as adults. Unfortunately an outbreak of illness within a school will also mutate a virus suitably to effect adults who have proviously built up an immunity to the current afflictions ancestor. There is no office environment on Earth where workers would sit 30 to a (badly ventilated) room then move to another room whilst swapping their collegues for a whole new bunch of collegues then repeating the procedure several times throughout the day.
    This is why illness spreads so quickly in schools amongst pupils and staff alike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    Children have weaker immune systems due to them not being subjected to as many dieseses as adults. Unfortunately an outbreak of illness within a school will also mutate a virus suitably to effect adults who have proviously built up an immunity to the current afflictions ancestor. There is no office environment on Earth where workers would sit 30 to a (badly ventilated) room then move to another room whilst swapping their collegues for a whole new bunch of collegues then repeating the procedure several times throughout the day.
    This is why illness spreads so quickly in schools amongst pupils and staff alike.
    Completley agree, in short, school environments turn illness viruses & bacteria into ninja's

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaleStorm View Post
    Completley agree, in short, school environments turn illness viruses & bacteria into ninja's
    Strange as it sounds, above pensions pay and everything else that's wrong with public sector working, this is the main reason i want to leave working in a school I'm just at the end of my second cold in 2 months. Before i worked here i'd get one a year at best but now i seem to get 3 minimum and occasionally the flu which again i'd never had before!

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