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General Chat Thread, Jimmy Carr - Offensive jokes in General; Originally Posted by pcstru Rubbish. Methinks you have been reading too much Daily Mail. Nope, this was from a training ...
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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    Rubbish. Methinks you have been reading too much Daily Mail.
    Nope, this was from a training session at my place of work, from an organisation that bases their existence is based on this legislation. They gave multiple examples of situations, for example a man walking through St Pauls wearing a t-shirt with racially offensive terms against people from the same race as him. He was arrested and prosecuted for it.

    Evidence to the contrary would be good?

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Nope, this was from a training session at my place of work, from an organisation that bases their existence is based on this legislation. They gave multiple examples of situations, for example a man walking through St Pauls wearing a t-shirt with racially offensive terms against people from the same race as him. He was arrested and prosecuted for it.

    Evidence to the contrary would be good?
    Well if this was the law why ins't every comedian, every rapper, every Australian that call's a British person a pom locked up?

    Is calling a geordie a geordie illegal? Are you saying Monty Python should be banned for its hilarious stereotyping of the 4 Yorkshiremen? It would be much easier for everyone if people who are offended by things not directed at them or being said in an obvious joke just grew a backbone and stopped being offended for the sake of it.

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  4. #138
    mwbutler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    And I'm saying that argument doesn't hold water. A joke is not simply joke. It has a knock on effect. Plus, you ignored the rest of my post. Its as if you are not actually reading the point being made - how is it ok for one part of society to get protection by law, and another side not be protected simply because its a 'joke'?
    Not sure why I'm continuing here as there isn't any point arguing with someone who is willing to argue for the sake of arguing. However...

    Comedians aren't racists, homophobes, etc etc. They push the boundaries against what is and what isn't morally acceptible. It's called shock humour and it's been around for ages.
    If it really angers you this much why argue about it when you can simply ignore it?

    (PS Thanks for more neg rep )

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  6. #139


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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Nope, this was from a training session at my place of work, from an organisation that bases their existence is based on this legislation. They gave multiple examples of situations, for example a man walking through St Pauls wearing a t-shirt with racially offensive terms against people from the same race as him. He was arrested and prosecuted for it.
    Hearsay. Let's have some facts we can actually check please.
    Evidence to the contrary would be good?
    Oh, so I need to prove your ridiculous claim is false rather than you substantiate it. Err right. Prove that god doesn't exists. Prove that I can't do majic. Prove that David Cameron isn't the devil. "Daily Mail" just about covers that level of argument.

    How about showing me where there is legislation against a "race related crime". You get arrested for committing a *crime*. That crime might be determined to have a racial element, which might be recorded for police statistics on "race related crimes" (a mugging of a black man by 3 white men was determined to have been racially motivated - the crime wasn't the race element, it was the *mugging*). The only crimes on the books that directly relate to race are incitement to racial hatred - a very difficult to prove offence which requires an intention to whip people up into a frenzy in which they are likely to commit a crime.

    The easy proof against your claim is to draw your attention to the Tours of Reginald D Hunter. His tour a few years ago was called "Pride & Prejudice & Niggas". The posters for that show were removed from the London Underground due to complaints, but I don't recall (and neither does he) him being charged with a criminal offence. If what you claim was true, then he should have been.

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  8. #140

    Theblacksheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    Nice post Rydra, also reminded me about disabled comedians - Mock of the Week had an australian who had a prosphetic leg and they all joked about it. Your point about jokes is exactly that - it is a joke. And even some comedians are actually very smart especially when it comes to coming up with their own materials.

    Again Rate up on that post for you!
    Check out 'Richard Herrings' Objective on BBC Radio 4, an episode recently was 'the wheelchair'. Had the girl who was on Grange Hill with MS, they all made jokes about the situation and not in a 'Joey Deacon' way (if anyone is old enough to remember that)... the point was the offence term 'nigger' was taken back by black rappers and comedians for the right reasons, comedy is about breaking down barriers, not putting them up and just because *SOME PEOPLE* are offended it is often their problem (see Hitler Moutache episode) and the perception of offence, rather than actual offence.

  9. #141

    MK-2's Avatar
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    just to put in context the thing about racially offensive language, an australian teacher at my old place said over here the term used for pakistani people is seen as offensive (you know which one, i wouldnt want to say it for fear of upsetting people without due warning!). but he said in australia its a common term that is used (not sure how true but still). he said its the same as australian being shortened to aussie, with pakistani being shortened.
    now if true the pakistani people in australia didn't see offense in it, so is it a racially offensive word just because one group in one country deems it so (and most times its middle class white men in the uk whe are outraged by it).

    also (and this is just a question, ill again try not to offend anyone), the guy on mock the week with a prosthetic leg, who made a joke about being in airport security with it. is that offending those with prosthesis? if someone without prosthesis found it offensive despite not having that ailment, is it offensive or just that person not finding it funny?

  10. #142

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Contact SARI, they were the trainers. I'll see if I can find my notes etc...

  11. #143

    MK-2's Avatar
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    just to sum up from me, we've all talked about making jokes about people who can't defend themselves, yet none of you have made jokes about the Chelsea defence, and let's face it, they definitely cannot defend themselves!

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    Where's my tumbleweed icon.

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    MK-2's Avatar
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    Just as a follow up, there is this from Jimmy Carr (please be warned, reading further on in my post may cause offence if you don't like opinions)


    During the radio interview, O'Connell asked Carr: 'Do you think there are no taboo areas?'

    Carr replied: 'I don’t think there are. I mean you could, I mean there’s different rules for different people. There’s things that I couldn’t joke about but other people could.

    'You go, well you can’t joke about race. Well if you’re from a different race and that's your experience of the world and you want to talk about that, then fine. Or you can't talk about disability, but disabled comics can talk about that. Well okay that's ... I think anyone can talk about anything, anything's kind of up for grabs.'

  15. #146

    Hightower's Avatar
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    I think it all comes down to how it is said. I could call someone an Arab, and be correct because I'm talking about where that person comes from. But I could then call that person an Arab again with real venom in my voice, in a different context and mean a completely different thing. It's been a long week and my head is fried, but I think my point is a joke is a joke, and should not be taken out of that context.

  16. #147

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    My final word on this as I'm a bit bored of the same arguments going around and around now (@Millgate said a few pages back, "let's all agree to disagree"; that's the only possible outcome here!).

    Words can only be offensive if you allow yourself to be offended by them. In allowing yourself to be offended by those words, you then give an attacker a weapon to use against you. If you don't allow those words to offend you, the attacker will stop using them as they'll soon see they have no weight.

    Jokes are jokes - for the most part they're not intended to hurt anybody (I know there are those out there who tell "jokes" when in actual fact they're only portraying their own venom; I really do not believe for a second that this is the case with Jimmy Carr). For instance, a friend of mine is both gay and Indian (and he's in a wheelchair, and he wears a turbine - Craid David [Bo Selecta]) and as a bit of banter between ourselves, in bars I would shout to him things like "what are you doing here you big gay asian", he'd reply along the lines of "oh be quiet you dirty little white boy". Neither of us meant what we said, it was just a joke, we didn't get offended or hurt, we just laughed about it (other people's faces were what made it funny!).

    The world is a vast and varied place and so it is inevitable that there will always be disagreements over any subject - the trick to leading a happy and fulfilling life is to not let those disagreements get you down, especially if they really have nothing to do with you! (that's reference to the middle class white folk who get so "outraged" at topics they'll never know or understand).

    Life is short, enjoy it.

    I leave this thread with a personal favourite song of mine from none other than the Monty Python crew:

    Quote Originally Posted by Monty Python
    Some things in life are bad they can really make you mad
    Other things just make you swear and curse
    When you're chewin' on life's gristle, don't grumble give a whistle
    And this'll help things turn out for the best

    And always look on the bright side of life
    Always look on the light side of life

    If life seems jolly rotten there's something you've forgotten
    And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing
    When you're feeling in the dumps don't be silly chumps
    Just purse your lips and whistle, that's the thing

    And always look on the bright side of life
    Come on, always look on the bright side of life

    For life is quite absurd and death's the final word
    You must always face the curtain with a bow
    Forget about your sin, give the audience a grin
    Enjoy it it's your last chance anyhow

    So always look on the bright side of death
    Just before you draw your terminal breath

    Life's a piece of s**t when you look at it
    Life's a laugh and death's a joke it's true
    You'll see it's all a show keep 'em laughing as you go
    Just remember that the last laugh is on you

    And always look on the bright side of life
    Always look on the right side of life
    Come on Brian, cheer up

    Always look on the bright side of life
    Always look on the bright side of life
    Worse things happen at sea you know

    Always look on the bright side of life
    Always look on the bright side of life
    Always look on the bright side of life

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  18. #148
    mwbutler's Avatar
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    Here's the video to complement the above


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    [QUOTE=localzuk;760199]Contact SARI, they were the trainers.
    [quote]
    So we have gone from "Prove my ridiculous assertion is false" to "do my research for me". Geez, the standard of internet debate these days is abysmal.

    I'll see if I can find my notes etc...
    Your notes might tell you that the source of your risible claim is indeed a bunch of trainers (get your money back), they won't tell you that the claims are any more true than anything you might find in the Daily Mail, Sun or parading as truth on Fox News. If your claim was true you would be able to find actual legislation to back it up - The "Race T-Shirt Crimes Act 1993" or some such. You won't find such a thing because it doesn't exist.

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    mwbutler (25th November 2011)

  21. #150

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    none of you have made jokes about the Chelsea defence, and let's face it, they definitely cannot defend themselves!
    I don't like Football, so I'm not sure if this is truth or not. But, I do know that I am offended by it. You should be ashamed of yourself.[/sarcasm]


    Also, not replying, eh? You didn't manage to stay away for long.


    @mwbutler I find that video to be offensive. It both trivialises the suffering of people who were crucified by implying it's not that bad. That it could be worse, as it were.[\MoreSarcasm]
    Last edited by X-13; 25th November 2011 at 05:42 PM.

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