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General Chat Thread, My ICT Teacher cannot mark my homework in General; And I suppose having some knowledge of setting up a domain, anyone knows it's not a five minute job....
  1. #16

    Michael's Avatar
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    And I suppose having some knowledge of setting up a domain, anyone knows it's not a five minute job.

  2. #17

    garethedmondson's Avatar
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    Emma is a regular contributor to the CAS mailing list and cause: Computing at School :: Computing For the Next Generation ...

    So at everyone who has contributed their opinion here why not join up and voice your opinion in the group. Several people of note contribute including David Braben (Elite fame), and the creators of the Raspberry Pi. A lot of knowledge in the group and a seperate group for those interested in Artificial Intelligence.

    So come on - get those opinions in the right place. A change is coming - trust me.

    Gareth

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    I would agree, as NM I should have zero contact with ICT Teaching unless actual IT Support related - eg Something needs fixing.
    Nothing to do with ICT Teaching? Nothing at all? How on earth do you know whether what you provide is adequate for their curriculum? Or do you meant that you have no more to do with them than you do for any other department?

  4. #19

    garethedmondson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    And another speaker of the truth screams into the wind of ignorance in the hope that it may make a difference.
    Let's not be so cynical - changes are happening. People are listening.

    David Cameron discussed the issues in a speech this week - he backed programming and reform: Prime Minister backs programming education reform | Game Development | News by Develop

    Gareth

  5. #20

    garethedmondson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKGarry View Post
    It does shock me, personally i was bored out of my brain in ICT, even to the point that as a student (about 10 year ago) in year 11, i found a lil script in a public share that was a simple script that was the proxy settings, by swapping the 2 groups around i could make it go around the proxy and give me unfiltered internet. I got in so much trouble, but it was way better than analysing why they need a DTP prog to do this and a Db to do that
    It hurts me to say that as an ICT Teacher I too am bored with what we have to teach. However the trick is to creatively decipher the National Curriculum document. I am bored - GCSE ICT is the same - even the new syllabus is the same stuff but in a different format. OKay we now have animation and more multimedia - but there is no programming.

    I program with my pupils in Year 8 - it is simple but it's what I can fit in. We look at Scratch and Kodu (okay not quite programming). This year I am introducing Arduino boards and .net Gadgeteer kits to the classroom - I wonder how they will go down.

    Our Year 12/13 have it tough as I am told to teach Applied ICT. If you think ICT is bad then try Applied. OMG! More databases and spreadsheets in Year 12. Year 13 is a little better but there is a massive spreadsheet project. Luckily my colleague teaches that. I teach the multimedia/gfx design coursework :_)

    Gareth

  6. #21

    garethedmondson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKGarry View Post
    It does shock me, personally i was bored out of my brain in ICT, even to the point that as a student (about 10 year ago) in year 11, i found a lil script in a public share that was a simple script that was the proxy settings, by swapping the 2 groups around i could make it go around the proxy and give me unfiltered internet. I got in so much trouble, but it was way better than analysing why they need a DTP prog to do this and a Db to do that
    I remember doing something similar on the Acorn Archimedes machines in school (around 1992). I remember cracking Impressions 2.19 to run without a serial number and also opening the modem application !ArcTerm7 and changing the icons so they didn't appear on the RiscOS desktop. The poor computer teacher could never understand why her department phone bills were so huge. It was me dialling into the Arcade BBS.

    I miss those days.

    Unfortunately with the curriculum as it is I don't have the time to learn these things at the moment. It is a sad fact that I am currently teaching myself Visual Basic. I used to be able to code Pascal, BBC Basic and ARM Assembler (as well as Commodore basic on the Vic20 and C64) - alas I have forgotten all my pokes and peekes.

    Gareth

  7. #22

    bossman's Avatar
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    I had a case today of one of our ICT teachers telling me about "The Box in the Hall" meaning our media room (Granted its small but not a box) that the sound was not working?

    I sent one of our technicians down with her and when he came back 5 mins later I knew that it was nothing serious.

    The sound had been muted and was so clearly visibly (Red circle with line around the sound icon in the bottom right hand corner) I just had to laugh.

  8. Thanks to bossman from:

    garethedmondson (15th November 2011)

  9. #23

    garethedmondson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    It is of my opinion that newly qualified teachers should (at the very least) be encouraged to have some form of IT qualification, even if they never end up being an ICT Co-ordinator. ICT is very much cross-curricular these days and covers every subject.
    I agree with you totally. Although I wish some of the PGCE students would learn to teach instead of relying on their 'main degree'. I had a student the other year who had a first in Computing but couldn't teach for toffee.

    I don't entirely agree that teachers need to have lots of technical knowledge, such as the differences between a Blu-ray and DVD drive. I'm sure teachers regularly use optical drives to play educational content. How it works and why it works are not important in the context of a teacher.
    Agree totally. Just be patient with the ones who do want to learn.

    Gareth

  10. #24

    garethedmondson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    I would agree, as NM I should have zero contact with ICT Teaching unless actual IT Support related - eg Something needs fixing.
    Personally I believe everyone should be one big ICT Team. That is the ethos I try and maintain in my school. The ICT Technician is an essential part of my department. I ask him when needed to contribute as I feel his knowledge can be used. It's a shame more schools do not do more of this.

    There are times where I have had to give assistance in students "Required" Coursework because the teacher doesn't have any clue. Surely that means they are not qualified to do their own job? I have been so busy in the last 12 months that every time a question pops up I blow it out of the water. I wish I was being sarcastic on the busy part but I find my self turning up early and getting normal jobs out the way to do my own work before any one else is in...
    I see what you are saying here and agree of sorts - but as Head of ICT and ICT Coordinator everyone expects me to know how to use every single piece of softwrae in the school - to such a degree that I cannot master any of them. Yes I can work all the Office apps to a high degree, but should I have to learn Sibelius? It seems I do. So you may get teachers who do not know certain things but their knowledge may be elsewhere. An ICT Teacher is tough. In my school I am known as Mr IT (or Mr TG in Welsh).[/quote]

    Gareth

  11. #25

    garethedmondson's Avatar
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    Apologies for posting so much in this topic. It's an interesting debate.

    Gareth

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    Quote Originally Posted by garethedmondson View Post
    I agree with you totally. Although I wish some of the PGCE students would learn to teach instead of relying on their 'main degree'. I had a student the other year who had a first in Computing but couldn't teach for toffee.



    Agree totally. Just be patient with the ones who do want to learn.

    Gareth
    Working in schools for a while I m really worried about new teachers, I dont know what they re teaching at PCGE but I m really worried for the future! all they can use are powerpoint I feel sorry for the kids thankfully enough older teachers around for now

  13. #27

    nephilim's Avatar
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    Oh I agree that the how it works is not the issue (if I am honest I couldn't tell you how it converts the media from the laser etc), but knowing what it plays should be known by all...my daughter for example knows that bluray disks wont work on my laptop but they will work on the bluray player, and she is 2 years 6 months (to the day tomorrow). I taught her this so she knows the difference between them. She can tell you whats a bluray, whats a dvd and whats a cd by the case (its a start!).

    As for coding, ahh in year I got banned from the ICT for circumventing the security on the systems. At the time it was Windows 98 with Novell, and basically I distributed pr0n images across all screens at once. When the teacher (and the NM) asked how I did it, I showed them (with the HT next to me) pointing out the flaws of the network and how it could be fixed, and what happens...I got suspended for breaking the security and banned from ICT until Year 10 (mind you having a free period where everyone else was learning was great, meant I could do the homework I had assigned so I could go out and play in the evenings!).

  14. #28


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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    as a slightly minor addition, for my music gcse, while others were just recording themselves playing piano etc, i used fast tracker to create a piece of music. it couldn't be accepted at first as there was no proof i had created it myself, so had to bring the program in, show the music teacher how it worked and how you create tracks on it etc before it was allowed.
    Unfortunately thats how the education system will always be unless we change the way teachers make it into teaching, and how qualifications are gained and marked. How can anyone have any experience of industry technologies and practices without actually working in the "real" world, or at least having a curriculum which teaches these things.

    I've been working with our music teachers recently on how they can bring technology into their lessons. Now I have no doubt at all that they are good at what they do but their knowledge and experience of that side of music is lacking to say the least. Now lets be right about it here, where are the jobs in music now a days; in music tech. So what good is it teaching kids how to play the recorder?

    Similarly where are you going to get a job working with powerpoint and access?

    I have no doubt that the music teachers are enthusiastic about using music tech but after sitting down with them and looking through the curriculum I just can't see how you can bring it in in any meaningful way. Saying that I am really surprised at the what they can actually do, but it just doesn't go far enough at all.

    One example is DJing (yeah, I was shocked too). To gain a distinction all they have to be able to do is sequence, phrase, beat match, and throw in a "wickid" sample and a spinback. Anyone who knows DJing will know that this could be taught in a matter of weeks, and "mastered" (at least to the standard it will be graded) in a couple of months at most.

    Yes the kids are only 15/16 at GCSE, but it's not as though that syllabus is challenging. One of my mates was warming up at the largest club in the UK at age 15, and another lad in the area was warming up in another club in Middlesbrough at 16 iirc (and we are talking proper clubs with proper DJs here, pulling in crowds of 7000+ week in week out). Neither of these lads have gone onto big things so it can't really be argued that they were exceptional, just lucky enough to have contacts which got their feet in the door.


    Anyway nice long rant there but I honestly believe that kids are capable of so much more given the chance. Unfortunately our education system has neither the curriculum nor the staff (in terms of training) to take things to the next level.
    Last edited by j17sparky; 15th November 2011 at 09:19 PM.

  15. #29

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    Why do people all presume that music needs to get down and funky with music tech? What would happen to all the incidental music in drama? What about composition and understanding the difference between Baroque and Classical? Sampling and mixing isn't everything.

    We also need to remember that ICT is not exactly computing, computer science, systems management, computer engineering, IT support ... and in the same way that English is not all about Chaucer, Shakespeare, Carol Ann Duffy, Emily Dickinson or understanding the Dewey Decimal system.

    Some aspects of ICT are about giving the skills and tools to be used in other areas, but others are about specific concepts and skills. If a student is outside of the experience or knowledge of a teacher it doesn't mean that they are a bad teacher ... just that they are an exceptional child / young adult. It is not all about being the fountain of all knowledge and you are imparting your wisdom to the world ... that high priest model has been debunked. Of course, there is a certain amount of knowledge and expertise which is needed to be able to help the students help themselves, but the way some people go on about teachers needing to almost be NMs / leading coders / hunted by Intel for their knowledge of building chips ... it is a tad over the top.
    Last edited by GrumbleDook; 15th November 2011 at 10:31 PM.

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  17. #30

    garethedmondson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    Some aspects of ICT is about giving the skills and tools to be used in other areas, but others are about specific concepts and skills. If a student is outside of the experience or knowledge of a teacher it doesn't mean that they are a bad teacher ... just that they are an exceptional child / young adult. It is not all about being the fountain of all knowledge and you are imparting your wisdom to the world ... that high priest model has been debunked. Of course, there is a certain amount of knowledge and expertise which is needed to be able to help the students help themselves, but the way some people go on about teachers needing to almost be NMs / leading coders / hunted by Intel for their knowledge of building chips ... it is a tad over the top.
    This is what I mean by PGCE students need more training instead of relying on their main degree. We need to be showing pupils how to help themselves and not be scared when they know more than us.

    I had a pupil lead a lesson the other day because he had done something in Scratch that I didn't even consider doing. He had learnt it himself at home by downloading Scratch and watching various YouTube videos. The kids thought it was funny but I took it as CPD.

    Gareth

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