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General Chat Thread, Unison and other Unions Strike 30/11/2011 in General; Originally Posted by SteveBentley I think you make a more compelling argument for improving standards of pension provision in the ...
  1. #106


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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveBentley View Post
    I think you make a more compelling argument for improving standards of pension provision in the private sector than for reducing the value of public sector pensions.<cut>
    Absolutely agree with this.

    All this Public Sector vs Private Sector seems like classic Divide and Rule tactics to me. Get us arguing amongst ourselves so we end up overlooking the more fundamental problems that affect both sectors.

    But in that argument, I have to say, those in the private sector chose to work in the private sector, for whatever reasons, and those in the public sector chose to work in the public sector. We all made those choices, we all knew the benefits and drawbacks, but we still made our choices.

    We should all now live with those choices.

    Or do what I'm doing.......taking what's accrued to me and getting tf out of Dodge as fast as my little legs can carry me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgardner View Post
    Do a lot of private sector workers not get things like Christmas bonuses and optional shares to bump up their pay/pension?
    That was always my experience while working for private sector firms, and my ex-wife's.

  3. #108
    zag
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    I worked in the private sector before joining a school and had a private pension that was all employee contributed. I reckon its worth about 40% less than the one I get now through the local government.

    To say its "gold plated" is an understatement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    I'm sorry but no one in the private sector has any had any sort of guarantees as to what they will get in the future. There are those of us who have had to invest in private pensions in the past, with NO employer contribution, and the value of that pension has sunk alarmingly. As has been said, sadly, things change. The retirement age is going up too, that isnt something that you could look into the future and predict. As for 'expecting' a payrise - again, they have been pretty lucky and from what I can see, they will still be pretty well off at retirement.
    The majority of schools, at least from my experience are state schools rather than private ones. Also, there is a 'standard' salary for NQT's, meaning they know what they are coming in at, and that the pay will rise with time, and not just the standard inflation payments. Not only that, but that staff in schools are often fluid, and as such vacancies as heads of dept, heads of year, or other opportunities arise that can sometimes lead to promotions and pay rises. A person who stays in teaching for 20+ years isn't going to sit at NQT salary all their life.

    So few private places would set wages lower than government set wages to begin with (how many experienced/qualified people would go for a job that's below state-set wages? Anyone who would take it, you probably don't want teaching IMO), but their progression salaries are sometimes different. Teachers still have to jump through the same routes as non-teaching staff for normal pay rises, but the difference is they have a clear line of promotion and progression.

    Unless you work in a larger educational establishment, your progression is limited to Junior, Senior Tech then NM, maybe Asst NM in a large school. Compare that to Teachers who have a complete gray-scale of promotions, side steps and pay grades to play with from class teacher, to specialist teacher, heads of depts/years then manglement in all it's various states and levels.

    If you've gone through a BEd and QTS etc, then you are setting yourself for a limited career path, that you knew with some level of certainty where you were going, and what you could be doing in 2, or 5 or 10 years. This came with a pension that was dependable if you wanted it.

    If your a teacher and you've made the move from public to private, you've most likely balanced out the pro's and cons of state versus private. If not, then it's your fault not the gov's, the school's or anyone else's that things do not work out.

    And I have been fully expecting the age of retirement to rise for years; it's already 65 compared to 60 only a few years ago. We've already got a road map to raise it to 67 in the next 5 years, so I fully expect to be retiring at 70+ by that time, which I have no great issue with.

    I'm already stuck in a role and an industry that is very hard to get out of (so few large businesses will take someone with tech experience but 0 business experience compared to others with both), without being shafted royally from every angle in regards to my salary and my future retirement. My costs go up, my take home salary goes down, and I have less to show for it at the end of it all.

  5. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Legal protection is the normal reason to be in a union for most school staff. Which is why I advise people to join Voice rather than one of the 'big' unions.
    who are Voice? are they a trades union or something else and what makes them different?

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodie View Post
    who are Voice? are they a trades union or something else and what makes them different?
    They're a non-striking union.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    They're a non-striking union.
    what? a trade union that won't strike under any circumstances? or just in this case?

  8. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodie View Post
    what? a trade union that won't strike under any circumstances? or just in this case?
    In any case. They don't strike. They are there to provide insurance, legal protection, collective bargaining etc... But they won't take industrial action. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_(trade_union)

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    In any case. They don't strike. They are there to provide insurance, legal protection, collective bargaining etc... But they won't take industrial action. Voice (trade union) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    excellent! how much are their dues, compared to unison?

  10. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodie View Post
    excellent! how much are their dues, compared to unison?
    About 125 a year for a full time support staff employee.

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    But check that your place of work recognises them otherwise the collective bargaining benefits are of no use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    In any case. They don't strike. They are there to provide insurance, legal protection, collective bargaining etc... But they won't take industrial action. Voice (trade union) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Not decrying them, they can't be any worse at collective bargaining than the Herts Unison branch/region/whatever, but how do they manage when they come up against completely intransigent employers. Like our present government, for instance and the lesser reputable private corporations and companies. I always think forgoing the right to withdraw labour is giving up your strongest bargaining chip.....witness the discussion we're having now and the Govt's reaction yesterday.

    3.30, time to go home, Andy is waving goodbye.

  13. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgardner View Post
    Do a lot of private sector workers not get things like Christmas bonuses and optional shares to bump up their pay/pension?
    No, not many of them. I never got a bonus or shares in my years in the private sector and mrwITch has only had the odd bonus from all the companies he has worked for in the private sector for the past 30-odd years

  14. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveBentley View Post
    But check that your place of work recognises them otherwise the collective bargaining benefits are of no use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    Not decrying them, they can't be any worse at collective bargaining than the Herts Unison branch/region/whatever, but how do they manage when they come up against completely intransigent employers. Like our present government, for instance and the lesser reputable private corporations and companies. I always think forgoing the right to withdraw labour is giving up your strongest bargaining chip.....witness the discussion we're having now and the Govt's reaction yesterday.

    3.30, time to go home, Andy is waving goodbye.
    It really depends what you want from a union. I don't usually focus on collective bargaining for getting myself things. I go and speak to my boss and work through things myself. It has done me well enough so far. The problem with collective bargaining is the collective bit means the employer then thinks it should slap everyone with the same title on the same pay, regardless of what they're doing on the ground (as many people on here have seen from the whole 'single status' debacle).

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    I am young compared to most on here I imagine.

    If I was a member of a union I know what I would be doing.

    Cost of living, retirement age rising, pensions being royally ***. Nice lots to look forward to for the future. No.1 counts at the end of the day. I am fully for the strikers, it affects me!

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