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General Chat Thread, Unison and other Unions Strike 30/11/2011 in General; From next April, Herts County are ceasing to pay Outer London Fringe Allowance to school-support staff. The teaching staff are ...
  1. #91


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    From next April, Herts County are ceasing to pay Outer London Fringe Allowance to school-support staff. The teaching staff are keeping their Outer London Fringe Allowance. This will affect my pension, not by much, but it will. It also introduces a two-tier employment structure, and turns me into a second-class employee. Realistically, pragmatically, I do one of the most key non-teaching jobs in the school, given the reliance on IT and A/V in the modern classroom, and to boot, a job that NO ONE else here can do, in a position that would cost them much more than I'm being paid now to fill with someone of the same experience, ethic, calibre and skill-set.

    None of the teaching unions were anywhere to be seen during this, predictably, and Unison, to my mind, rolled-over and allowed County to shaft us.

    The whole man-jack of them can get to............as far as I'm concerned, just give me my pension accrual that's due to me on the 7th anniversay of when I started here, it won't be much, and I'll take it and go.

    As far away as it will get me.

    Yours truly,

    Disillusioned of Hertfordshire

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    Consider this.
    A lot of teachers opted from the age of 18 to go into teaching. They went in knowing what the salary, the job, the details were, and had a good idea of where it would lead to. The majority who come in at this point, are aiming to make this a life-long career. They could have done a million other things, but this job they went into for the long haul. As part of this, your told what the pension is like on top of your highly stressful job that takes all hours of the day for 40+ weeks a year, for the next 40 years of your life.
    Now someone has just told you that you won't get any of the payrises you expected for the next 5 years.
    Your pension is now costing you more too, and you find out that your going to have to work another 5 years longer than planned.
    On top of that, when you get to the point of retirement, it's not worth half as much as it was going to be.
    On top of that, your chances for progression have decreased since they are laying people off and spreading the work around a bit, there are less manger positions available than their used to be.

    You've invested your youth, your time, effort and money, and now someone has frankly trashed your future. and you've got a degree and experience in something that is not really transferrable to any other industry.

    I think you'd be pissed too.
    I'm sorry but no one in the private sector has any had any sort of guarantees as to what they will get in the future. There are those of us who have had to invest in private pensions in the past, with NO employer contribution, and the value of that pension has sunk alarmingly. As has been said, sadly, things change. The retirement age is going up too, that isnt something that you could look into the future and predict. As for 'expecting' a payrise - again, they have been pretty lucky and from what I can see, they will still be pretty well off at retirement.
    The world is in a particularly bad situation, economically, and we will all have to put up with things we didnt expect. There is a prevalent 'I'm all right, Jack" tone around that really annoys me - it isnt as if you can wall yourself off from the world - you will need roads and sewers and water and healthcare and schools etc.
    As for the Unison strike, I am in a non-striking union but wouldnt strike anyway as I have looked at the proposal and think it quite fair.
    Unions shoot themselves in the foot by demanding ridiculous levels of pay, pensions etc IMHO.
    I also believe that people should either be made to vote, or any organisation which gets less than a 40% turnout to vote, must declare the result null and void and try again. This includes governments

  3. #93
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    ceasing to pay Outer London Fringe Allowance to school-support staff
    Now see that's something I could get behind striking over, especially as teachers are still getting it!

    I'm sorry but no one in the private sector has any had any sort of guarantees as to what they will get in the future
    That's exactly what I thought when I read that post originally, what other job nowadays has promises given 40 years in advance that are kept 100%?

  4. #94


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    I'm sorry but no one in the private sector has any had any sort of guarantees as to what they will get in the future
    Thats WHY a technician/network manager in the private sector earns significantly more than in the public sector - the extra money from employer contributions help offset this difference.

  5. #95

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    Thats WHY a technician/network manager in the private sector earns significantly more than in the public sector - the extra money from employer contributions help offset this difference.
    I'd question that fact now though, there has been a significant change in public sector pay levels for many jobs recently, and many are now much closer to their private sector equivalents - especially in IT, due to the massive number of IT layoffs that have occurred in recent years.

  6. #96

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    You only have to look at this thread to see how poor public sector pay is for many edugeekers. Private sector pay is still way ahead of public sector for IT isn't it?

    ICT School Wages

  7. #97

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgardner View Post
    You only have to look at this thread to see how poor public sector pay is for many edugeekers. Private sector pay is still way ahead of public sector for IT isn't it?

    ICT School Wages
    Not as far as I can tell, for our level of jobs. A technician working for a managed service provider won't be earning a lot more than a school tech.

  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    I'll probably go on strike, it's pay-day after all, break the week up nicely. Yeah, it's loosing a day's pay, but it also gives us two the chance to show the teaching staff, just how necessary we are, and how limited their 'technical' skills are.......some of them can put a 13amp plug in a socket, but most of them can't switch the socket on as well.
    Hmm I'm almost sure I heard that the teaching unions were striking as well.

    Gareth

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    I'm sorry but no one in the private sector has any had any sort of guarantees as to what they will get in the future. There are those of us who have had to invest in private pensions in the past, with NO employer contribution, and the value of that pension has sunk alarmingly.
    I think you make a more compelling argument for improving standards of pension provision in the private sector than for reducing the value of public sector pensions.

    I also believe that people should either be made to vote, or any organisation which gets less than a 40% turnout to vote, must declare the result null and void and try again. This includes governments
    The House of Commons would never get anything done - 250 MPs would have to turn up for every vote/division. That's not a bad idea!

  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgardner View Post
    We'd be working 80 hours per week for next to nothing, with no rights at all.
    Compared to now where we will be working until we are 80? (or not far off). LOL.

    GJE

  11. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    Thats WHY a technician/network manager in the private sector earns significantly more than in the public sector - the extra money from employer contributions help offset this difference.
    I work in an independant school, so I guess technically classed as private sector, as we run from the fees charged and have no government help. Teachers earn slightly more here than public but I doubt support staff here are paid any more than (or at the very least slightly more) public support staff.
    We get no pension here as support staff, and as/when they do introduce it it will likely be employer 1% contribution.
    We also model pay structure rises on public sector, so the public sector pay freeze has hit us too. So how exactly am I better off with no pension at all and no pay rise for the past 3 years

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Not as far as I can tell, for our level of jobs. A technician working for a managed service provider won't be earning a lot more than a school tech.
    Isn't that more because the managed provider's terms and conditions of employment are a legacy of what staff who were TUPE'd over from schools and LAs were on?

  13. #103

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveBentley View Post
    Isn't that more because the managed provider's terms and conditions of employment are a legacy of what staff who were TUPE'd over from schools and LAs were on?
    No, I'm referring to technicians who didn't come from a school, it the roving technicians who go to whatever school they're sent to, employed by companies like Northgate etc...

  14. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    No, I'm referring to technicians who didn't come from a school, it the roving technicians who go to whatever school they're sent to, employed by companies like Northgate etc...
    Do a lot of private sector workers not get things like Christmas bonuses and optional shares to bump up their pay/pension?

  15. #105
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    Hey here's a radical option - why couldn't the government make the state pension actually be enough to live off then we wouldn't need a works pension and wouldn't need to strike?

    There does seem to be an irony that successive governments have told people not to rely on the state to keep them in their old age, people take them up on their advice and then get kicked in the teeth like this.

  16. 2 Thanks to SteveBentley:

    CyberNerd (4th November 2011), Earthling (4th November 2011)

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