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General Chat Thread, Unison and other Unions Strike 30/11/2011 in General; ...
  1. #76


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    1/60th of £22000 PA X 40 years = £16500 PA.

    20% (10% personal 10% employer contribution) of £22,000 = £4400
    £4400 X 40 years = £170,000 paid out estimate.

    That means if you draw a pension for more than 10 years after retirement, your costing more than you put in, and current life expectancies are approaching the 80 mark, and in 40 years who knows how high it might be.

    The whole system is broken from one end to the other.

    I have an idea that could save us millions....

    Get rid of 30% of the MP's, increase the size of constituencies, and give them more work (like their doing to the rest of the government public sector workers). This should save us a few million each year.
    Next, get rid of 1 high level exec from every single local government group. This will save us another few million.

    By getting rid of 1000 overpaid managers you've just saved enough to employ 5-10,000 frontline workers.

    Next, take control of the banks that you basically own. Remove bonuses until they can stand on their own and their debt is paid. You don't get BONUSES unless you do well ffs, and collapsing a bank is not worthy of a bonus you morons.

    And stop screwing with the pensions. If people are living too long, then revise how the payments work; fine raise the retirement age (if your living longer and healthier you can work a little longer), but don't reduce the purpose of it by increasing what we pay into it, reducing what you put into it, then crashing what we get out of it.
    OR
    change the percentages paid into the scheme. But don't destroy the scheme by trying to do both.

    Do I want to strike? Not really, it's a last resort method of showing discontent. But it's taken a year of arguing between unions and the government, and they REFUSED to negotiate until almost every single union threatened to strike.
    I DO NOT believe these pension changes are for the benefit of the country as a whole, and firmly believe that it's mostly being done to prove some political point that only other politicians care about. The rest of us just want a country that isn't broken, and a job that's worth doing and being paid for.

    If I stay where I am for the next 40 years, and this strike has the effect of saving at least some aspect of my pension, then it's £70 lost for a potential gain of thousands. And the ONLY way to assure that my future isn't ruined is to stick together with those who are equally affected.

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  3. #77

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    Don't lose sight of the fact that the proposed increases in contributions are intended to improve/stabilise the LGPS; they are a pension 'tax' on local government workers, with money going straight to the treasury.

    The LGPS was overhauled a few years ago & is supposed to be in good shape now and is fully funded; if the unions allow the Govt to get away with this now, are they going to keep on coming back year on year to 'milk' local government employees of the odd £billion or two?

    There are always two sides to any argument, as usual the press is full of Government spin.... to get a more balanced view take a look at http://www.unison.org.uk/pensions/re...nd_Fiction.pdf
    So the government is full of spin, but the Unison one isn't??

  4. #78


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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    Don't lose sight of the fact that the proposed increases in contributions are intended to improve/stabilise the LGPS; they are a pension 'tax' on local government workers, with money going straight to the treasury.

    The LGPS was overhauled a few years ago & is supposed to be in good shape now and is fully funded; if the unions allow the Govt to get away with this now, are they going to keep on coming back year on year to 'milk' local government employees of the odd £billion or two?

    There are always two sides to any argument, as usual the press is full of Government spin.... to get a more balanced view take a look at http://www.unison.org.uk/pensions/re...nd_Fiction.pdf
    You cannot claim that a union published article is "Balanced" It's just the polar opposite to the government spin

    You would need to find a 3rd neutral party for it to be "Balanced".

  5. #79


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    Where are the banks in all this? Sitting very quietly, very smugly, with the £175 trillion million billion we gave them, on a beach somewhere earning 20%.

    Thank God I'm out of here soon-ish.

  6. #80


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    1/60th of £22000 PA X 40 years = £16500 PA.

    20% (10% personal 10% employer contribution) of £22,000 = £4400
    £4400 X 40 years = £170,000 paid out estimate.

    That means if you draw a pension for more than 10 years after retirement, your costing more than you put in, and current life expectancies are approaching the 80 mark, and in 40 years who knows how high it might be.
    Thats not the entire story, the money ( £140bn in LPGS IIRC ) is invested, so it accumulates money itself.

  7. #81
    zag
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    I spoke to a teacher last week about all this and he was very militant about it all.

    He kept saying he deserved it and had been promised a brilliant pension and the government had no right to take that away.

    I just couldn't get through to him that everything he has earned up to now is not being changed. And this only applies to the future. Thats why his yearly pension said "projected" not "garanteed". He just didn't get it and was convinced in 25 years time nothing should change.

    I guess there are 2 different views on this that can never be convinced.

  8. #82

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    I am withdrawing from this thread....godwins law is going to kick in soon!

    Before it does, this is for all sides of the argument.


  9. #83


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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    I spoke to a teacher last week about all this and he was very militant about it all.

    He kept saying he deserved it and had been promised a brilliant pension and the government had no right to take that away.

    I just couldn't get through to him that everything he has earned up to now is not being changed. And this only applies to the future. Thats why his yearly pension said "projected" not "garanteed". He just didn't get it and was convinced in 25 years time nothing should change.

    I guess there are 2 different views on this that can never be convinced.
    Consider this.
    A lot of teachers opted from the age of 18 to go into teaching. They went in knowing what the salary, the job, the details were, and had a good idea of where it would lead to. The majority who come in at this point, are aiming to make this a life-long career. They could have done a million other things, but this job they went into for the long haul. As part of this, your told what the pension is like on top of your highly stressful job that takes all hours of the day for 40+ weeks a year, for the next 40 years of your life.
    Now someone has just told you that you won't get any of the payrises you expected for the next 5 years.
    Your pension is now costing you more too, and you find out that your going to have to work another 5 years longer than planned.
    On top of that, when you get to the point of retirement, it's not worth half as much as it was going to be.
    On top of that, your chances for progression have decreased since they are laying people off and spreading the work around a bit, there are less manger positions available than their used to be.

    You've invested your youth, your time, effort and money, and now someone has frankly trashed your future. and you've got a degree and experience in something that is not really transferrable to any other industry.

    I think you'd be pissed too.

  10. 3 Thanks to Rydra:

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  11. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post

    There are always two sides to any argument, as usual the press is full of Government spin.... to get a more balanced view take a look at http://www.unison.org.uk/pensions/re...nd_Fiction.pdf
    So to get a balanced view of Govt vs Unions on the pensions situation go to the Unions website? As much as they will claim to be unbiased I doubt it will be.

  12. #85
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    you've got a degree and experience in something that is not really transferrable to any other industry.
    Reminds me of "those that can't - teach". funny

  13. #86


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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    So to get a balanced view of Govt vs Unions on the pensions situation go to the Unions website?
    Well, yes. If you listen to the governments argument and then the union argument you will see both sides and can form a balanced view. Sorry to point out the obvious.


    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    I just couldn't get through to him that everything he has earned up to now is not being changed. And this only applies to the future. Thats why his yearly pension said "projected" not "garanteed". He just didn't get it and was convinced in 25 years time nothing should change.
    It is being changed. LGPS employer contributions are effectively differed earnings, hence a change in the amount he will be paid at retirement under these proposals are effectively a pay cut. It's projected and not guaranteed because the hundred and forty billion odd quid that LPGS is worth is re-invested and clearly the return on that investment is what is projected, that is substantially different to the proposal to increase employee contributions, decrease employer contributions and reduce the amount paid at the end (whilst increasing pension age)

  14. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    So to get a balanced view of Govt vs Unions on the pensions situation go to the Unions website? As much as they will claim to be unbiased I doubt it will be.
    Listen to what the Govt have to say, then listen to what the unions have to say, then make your own mind up; don't let the press decide for you......

  15. 2 Thanks to broc:

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  16. #88
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    Teachers aren't in the LGPS though, they're generally in the Teachers' Pension Scheme or somesuch.

    To me this is about the public sector as a whole (Unison is just one of the unions involved, some already have a mandate for action from previous ballots. The day of action is being co-ordinated by the TUC) standing up and telling the Government that public sector workers aren't going to put up with being made a scapegoat for the mess politicians have let the country get into. If they get away with watering down our pensions what will they try to take from us next?

    By the way, I presume everybody who is a Unison member and is condemning the strikes actually bothered to cast a No vote? If you didn't, you've got no right to comment.

  17. 2 Thanks to SteveBentley:

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  18. #89
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    I presume everybody who is a Unison member and is condemning the strikes actually bothered to cast a No vote?
    Yup, as soon as it arrived :P

  19. #90


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    Consider this.
    A lot of teachers opted from the age of 18 to go into teaching. They went in knowing what the salary, the job, the details were, and had a good idea of where it would lead to. The majority who come in at this point, are aiming to make this a life-long career. They could have done a million other things, but this job they went into for the long haul. As part of this, your told what the pension is like on top of your highly stressful job that takes all hours of the day for 40+ weeks a year, for the next 40 years of your life.
    Now someone has just told you that you won't get any of the payrises you expected for the next 5 years.
    Your pension is now costing you more too, and you find out that your going to have to work another 5 years longer than planned.
    On top of that, when you get to the point of retirement, it's not worth half as much as it was going to be.
    On top of that, your chances for progression have decreased since they are laying people off and spreading the work around a bit, there are less manger positions available than their used to be.

    You've invested your youth, your time, effort and money, and now someone has frankly trashed your future. and you've got a degree and experience in something that is not really transferrable to any other industry.

    I think you'd be pissed too.
    So pretty much every person on this forum then? Apart from we work more weeks.... And yes their career isn't as transferable as ours but personally I think the perks make up for it.


    Not meant to be teacher bashing just a "it isn't just teachers".
    Last edited by j17sparky; 4th November 2011 at 01:22 PM.

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