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General Chat Thread, Unison and other Unions Strike 30/11/2011 in General; pensions are taxable if you draw money from them, until that point they are treated as savings....
  1. #196

    nephilim's Avatar
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    pensions are taxable if you draw money from them, until that point they are treated as savings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    It is only currently a Unison strike, as they're the only ones who have announced the result of their ballot.
    Several of the others balloted some time back, but held off on the strike action till all the unions had got together. There are at least 14 unions joining the strike, but I haven't as yet found a list of which ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    32k is now the max I believe...just open an offshore savings account in Switzerland (can now be done by mail), transfer money into it after you open it, do this every month....interest is much higher and its done in the currency of choice (GBP for me).
    What sort of interest are we talking about, and are there any risks/downfalls etc?
    I mean my isa does about 4% atm, so if this only matches that, i wont really gain anything

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    My interest at the minute is frozen at 9% for 8 more years (got it at 9% for 10 years), you can choose if you want it to be done based on stock options (which are more risky), inflation (again risky) or fixed rate (you could lose out depending on inflation). I was VERY lucky as I got mine just before the economic downturn. I think now you will still get about 6% or 7% which is better than 4% but it would be fixed for a period of time with no cap on how much you can put in.

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    From my bankers original email when I did the savings account

    Non Swiss franc accounts pay interest in several slightly different ways. Your banker can put the money in a special type of fund called money market fund to get you the interest (Stocks and Shares), or it can be done based on the Swiss Inflation Rate (which fluctuates every year so you will have no set rate) or a fixed rate for a minimum of 10 years. The current rate we are offering is 9% and you may lose out depending on how the Swiss Inflation goes up and down. There is a small cost (usually below 1%) to move the money into the fund, but there are absolutely no penalties and no notice period when you withdraw money. The minimum needed to enter most of these money market funds is only about 200 Great British Pounds. In Switzerland, this is the standard way of getting interest on non Swiss currencies.
    Hope that helps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    That thread actually highlights something that I hadn't thought of initially.

    I can go work in the private sector for the next 40 years, be it mcdonalds or banking, and spend every penny I earn on whatever I like.

    At the end of it, I can retire happily, knowing that the state will pay me, plus pay for half of my bills among other things.
    Well yes, if your idea of a comfortable life is penury, you can do that.

    Public sector workers can do this too; they don't have to enter into a pension scheme, but most public sector workers are paid a considerable percentage less than their private sector equivalent jobs. This is mostly because the gov assumes that they have to pay into your pension, wheither you opt to or not.
    Average public-sector pay is higher than average private sector pay and has been for the last 3 years.

    If the Gov doesn't want to pay me as much into my pension, then fine, I will happily end my pension, if they pay me the extra money they would have paid, or even a fair chunk of this in the form of increased salary.

    Not only thist, but the gov uses the pension fund for investment.

    The independant audit highlighted that the LGPS is currently in positive cashflow. This means that there's a pot of money that sits there happily, but the outgoings each month are covered by what's incoming, so that the lump sum they have can be used for investment opportunities.
    Eventually, the outgoings will be higher than what's incoming at the current rates.

    With this knowledge, if you decrease the amount the gov pays in this speeds up the process of negative cashflow. So they have to increase the employee contributions to compensate, bringing the break point further back again.

    So this all comes down to the fact that the pensions need some attention to make them work for longer periods of time, but are currently financially viable. Raising the age of retirement is in this case a viable option, so is fixing the Final salary scheme to an average based scheme, both of which do not massively hurt the majority of Public sector workers.
    Therefore, the only reason that the gov wants to review the funding side of pensions, is because they are trying to fix their defecit.

    Raiding the pension fund is not a suitable way for the government to achieve their defecit goals, and is why the unions, and many members are up in arms.

    If they had simply left it with the Final to average scheme and a few years added to retirement age, we would not be striking, simply put, and you would have seen a lack of support by members of any union trying to force one.
    You are aware that the Labour government was considering doing exactly the same thing as the coalition but decided not to because it was craven, supine, and a disgrace to the country?

  7. Thanks to Flatpackhamster from:

    Martin (8th November 2011)

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    I can't believe that, in education IT of all places, anybody is actually believing the BS that all the Tory press is coming out with! Where are the figures for public sector pay being higher than private sector? Where in the private sector are they paying the pittance that I am earning? And on what planet is it reasonable that we sign contracts, only for the employer to turn round and say "Oh no, we're not giving you that after all"? What would happen if WE decided that we wouldn't honour our contracts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster View Post
    Average public-sector pay is higher than average private sector pay and has been for the last 3 years.
    Just to correct this - the statistics here are dubious to say the least. So many jobs within the public sector have been outsourced, meaning that there are fewer lower paid workers, not that the wages have actually increased.

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    I've applied for a lot of jobs over the years in and out of education. Private education wise, same job-level was offering 30% more salary on average. I can understand this may be different for smaller private schools, but the majority of private schools I applied to were large private schools in and around the london area.

    Private sector wise I applied for mostly, and I found a step down (aka 1st line support) was same/similar as my current salary (usually within 10%), 2nd line was typically 10-20% more, and 3rd line was 30-50% more. Management roles in private sector were typically 40-100% more on salary.

    Specialists (programmers, DB admins, network technicians etc.) would typically pay 4-10k more than their multi-skilled counterpart, depending on the level they are at with the specialism.

  11. Thanks to Rydra from:

    nephilim (8th November 2011)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickev View Post
    I can't believe that, in education IT of all places, anybody is actually believing the BS that all the Tory press is coming out with! Where are the figures for public sector pay being higher than private sector? Where in the private sector are they paying the pittance that I am earning? And on what planet is it reasonable that we sign contracts, only for the employer to turn round and say "Oh no, we're not giving you that after all"? What would happen if WE decided that we wouldn't honour our contracts?
    Playing Devils Advocate here, but would you rather the employer honoured all your pension schemes even if it meant the school ran out of money (and in turn all schools/government controlled places did) and had to lay people off?
    Also, pittance? As I stated above, technically I suppose I am private sector, I do not have a pension offered to me and am comparable wage with NM in public sector schools, so who out of us is the worst off? You possibly having to pay extra contributions but still getting employer contributions, or me, on the same wage getting no pension at all and having no employer contribution at all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    Playing Devils Advocate here, but would you rather the employer honoured all your pension schemes even if it meant the school ran out of money (and in turn all schools/government controlled places did) and had to lay people off?
    Exactly! I think we are doing very well out of all this to be honest. I'd much rather take a pension cut than a wage cut or redundancy.

  14. #207

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    I've applied for a lot of jobs over the years in and out of education. Private education wise, same job-level was offering 30% more salary on average. I can understand this may be different for smaller private schools, but the majority of private schools I applied to were large private schools in and around the london area.

    Private sector wise I applied for mostly, and I found a step down (aka 1st line support) was same/similar as my current salary (usually within 10%), 2nd line was typically 10-20% more, and 3rd line was 30-50% more. Management roles in private sector were typically 40-100% more on salary.

    Specialists (programmers, DB admins, network technicians etc.) would typically pay 4-10k more than their multi-skilled counterpart, depending on the level they are at with the specialism.
    I can't agree more with this. I have applied for literally hundreds of jobs within 80 miles of my house (reasonable distance to travel by public transport.

    1st Line support roles in Luton, Cambridge, St Albans, London, Oxford, Banbury, Hemel Hempstead, Kettering etc - all paying around the 18k mark (+2k for London)
    2nd Line support roles in Luton, Cambridge, St Albans, London, Oxford, Banbury, Hemel Hempstead, Kettering etc - all paying around the 27k mark (+5k for London)
    3rd Line support roles in Luton, Cambridge, St Albans, London, Oxford, Banbury, Hemel Hempstead, Kettering etc - all paying around the 42k mark (+8k for London)
    Management roles in Luton, Cambridge, St Albans, London, Oxford, Banbury, Hemel Hempstead, Kettering etc - all paying around the 50k mark (+10k for London)

    State Schools Jnr Technician roles in Luton, Cambridge, St Albans, London, Oxford, Banbury, Hemel Hempstead, Kettering etc - all paying around the 14k mark (+2k for London)
    State Schools Snr Technician roles in Luton, Cambridge, St Albans, London, Oxford, Banbury, Hemel Hempstead, Kettering etc - all paying around the 18k mark (+2k for London)
    State Schools Deputy /Assistant Network Manager roles in Luton, Cambridge, St Albans, London, Oxford, Banbury, Hemel Hempstead, Kettering etc - all paying around the 26k mark (+2k for London)
    State Schools Network Manager roles in Luton, Cambridge, St Albans, London, Oxford, Banbury, Hemel Hempstead, Kettering etc - all paying around the 29k mark (+2k for London)

    Private Schools Jnr Technician roles in Luton, Cambridge, St Albans, London, Oxford, Banbury, Hemel Hempstead, Kettering etc - all paying around the 18k mark (+2k for London)
    Private Schools Snr Technician roles in Luton, Cambridge, St Albans, London, Oxford, Banbury, Hemel Hempstead, Kettering etc - all paying around the 24k mark (+2k for London)
    Private Schools Deputy /Assistant Network Manager roles in Luton, Cambridge, St Albans, London, Oxford, Banbury, Hemel Hempstead, Kettering etc - all paying around the 29k mark (+2k for London)
    Private Schools Network Manager roles in Luton, Cambridge, St Albans, London, Oxford, Banbury, Hemel Hempstead, Kettering etc - all paying around the 33k mark (+2k for London)

    People who tell me private sector gets less than education, take a long hard look at the education finances!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    People who tell me private sector gets less than education, take a long hard look at the education finances!
    I can't really talk for those figures with not living there, but I know from personal experience I am on about 800 more than my old boss at my old place (state school). So no real massive advantage considering he has a LGPS and i have zilch

    Remember with private schools they are wholly paid for by fees. numbers drop, chances are so are your wages, or chance of redundancy (as with most businesses, clients go, money goes).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    Playing Devils Advocate here, but would you rather the employer honoured all your pension schemes even if it meant the school ran out of money (and in turn all schools/government controlled places did) and had to lay people off?
    Also, pittance? As I stated above, technically I suppose I am private sector, I do not have a pension offered to me and am comparable wage with NM in public sector schools, so who out of us is the worst off? You possibly having to pay extra contributions but still getting employer contributions, or me, on the same wage getting no pension at all and having no employer contribution at all?
    OK then...what do you consider 'comparable wage to a NM in public sector schools'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickev View Post
    OK then...what do you consider 'comparable wage to a NM in public sector schools'?
    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim
    State Schools Network Manager roles in Luton, Cambridge, St Albans, London, Oxford, Banbury, Hemel Hempstead, Kettering etc - all paying around the 29k mark (+2k for London)
    I'm on less than that, and as previously mentioned am about 800/1000 better off than my old boss who was classed as senior tech not NM at (what is still considered) a failing state school.

    My point is, say, just for arguments sake, you pay in 50 pension a month, school pays in 30. You now have to pay in 60 and the school pays in 30. To match that, I have to pay in 90 a month with no contributions anywhere else, who gets the better deal here? I'm not saying it's a good/bad deal for LGPS but things should be taken into perspective.

    Also, we have a price freeze on wage increase the same as state schools, so it's not like if I had to pay in 90 my wage increase covers it, I'm on the same wages now as I was when I started 3 years ago due to the freeze, so I'm not exactly eating from the golden egg of private sector am I

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