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General Chat Thread, Unison and other Unions Strike 30/11/2011 in General; Ok, so since you want evidence that the Union's had a part in it, I'd like you to provide evidence ...
  1. #181


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    Ok, so since you want evidence that the Union's had a part in it, I'd like you to provide evidence that they had NOTHING to do with it.

    The ability to disprove things is as important as evidence to prove it.

  2. #182

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    Ok, so since you want evidence that the Union's had a part in it, I'd like you to provide evidence that they had NOTHING to do with it.

    The ability to disprove things is as important as evidence to prove it.
    Bit late for that, however that is an odd argument to have. It'd be like asking someone to disprove the existence of God...

  3. #183


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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Bit late for that, however that is an odd argument to have. It'd be like asking someone to disprove the existence of God...
    My point exactly.... There is as much (or little as it may be) saying it did happen as there is saying they had nothing to do with, just as there is variably reliable sources for and against the existence of God.

    Your arguement is that you are adamant that Unions have had little to no impact in each of these things and wont accept it without evidence.
    But at the same time I could argue that there is no evidence to suggest that they had no impact on them.
    Just that my experience and senses tell me that it's more likely that somewhere, a union has had something to do with each of these changes, than that some businessmen or politicians suddenly decided that people needed more holiday, better salaries, and improved rights within the workplace.

    Even if it was an EU thing that pushed the changes through, chances are some european union had a hand in the change being pushed.

    I'm not saying all unions are the saviour of the world, but to try and ignore the contributions they have made, for better or worse because you can't get a first hand account backed up from 15 different reputable sources doesn't mean they should be ignored or refused.

  4. #184

    MK-2's Avatar
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    to put things in perspective, go on the TES site and look at the strike forum there!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    to put things in perspective, go on the TES site and look at the strike forum there!
    Got a link? I'm being thick and a little lazy.... pretty please!

  6. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    Got a link? I'm being thick and a little lazy.... pretty please!
    Nov30 has forced the *** to make concessions - Opinion - TES Connect

    I got about 5 pages through before giving up.

  7. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    Nov30 has forced the *** to make concessions - Opinion - TES Connect

    I got about 5 pages through before giving up.
    It's a very good read. I'm particularly enjoying the clear difference between the person who shows, using actual numbers, that the current system is unaffordable and the ranting trot who claims that the pension calculator is a secret tool of the capitalist establishment to oppress the proletariat.

  8. Thanks to Flatpackhamster from:

    localzuk (8th November 2011)

  9. #188


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    That thread actually highlights something that I hadn't thought of initially.

    I can go work in the private sector for the next 40 years, be it mcdonalds or banking, and spend every penny I earn on whatever I like.

    At the end of it, I can retire happily, knowing that the state will pay me, plus pay for half of my bills among other things.

    Public sector workers can do this too; they don't have to enter into a pension scheme, but most public sector workers are paid a considerable percentage less than their private sector equivalent jobs. This is mostly because the gov assumes that they have to pay into your pension, wheither you opt to or not.

    If the Gov doesn't want to pay me as much into my pension, then fine, I will happily end my pension, if they pay me the extra money they would have paid, or even a fair chunk of this in the form of increased salary.

    Not only thist, but the gov uses the pension fund for investment.

    The independant audit highlighted that the LGPS is currently in positive cashflow. This means that there's a pot of money that sits there happily, but the outgoings each month are covered by what's incoming, so that the lump sum they have can be used for investment opportunities.
    Eventually, the outgoings will be higher than what's incoming at the current rates.

    With this knowledge, if you decrease the amount the gov pays in this speeds up the process of negative cashflow. So they have to increase the employee contributions to compensate, bringing the break point further back again.

    So this all comes down to the fact that the pensions need some attention to make them work for longer periods of time, but are currently financially viable. Raising the age of retirement is in this case a viable option, so is fixing the Final salary scheme to an average based scheme, both of which do not massively hurt the majority of Public sector workers.


    Therefore, the only reason that the gov wants to review the funding side of pensions, is because they are trying to fix their defecit.

    Raiding the pension fund is not a suitable way for the government to achieve their defecit goals, and is why the unions, and many members are up in arms.

    If they had simply left it with the Final to average scheme and a few years added to retirement age, we would not be striking, simply put, and you would have seen a lack of support by members of any union trying to force one.

  10. #189

    MK-2's Avatar
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    I'm still staying out of full debate on this, as being private school we don't even get a pension unlike the teachers here....and the talk of one happening will be 1% contribution by employer. so for those who think they have it hard working in a school, how about no pension at all. a lot of teachers on the TES seem to see private sector (which i guess we are) as some sort of pension holy ground where we will get massive amounts because we aren't government funded.....

  11. #190

    nephilim's Avatar
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    For teachers that I know, a Private School pension is better than LGPS, but the working conditions are not as good as state schools.

    As for me, I opted out and paid into my own pension fund in my Swiss account, with a frozen 9% interest for the next 10 years. I paid on average 60 a month into it (depending on bills etc) and in interest alone per year I got roughly 60 per year. Better than any pension scheme operated by the government / banks here. Only stipulation is once every 5 years I go to Switzerland to see my banker, update any family details, wills blah blah blah.

  12. #191

    MK-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    For teachers that I know, a Private School pension is better than LGPS, but the working conditions are not as good as state schools.

    As for me, I opted out and paid into my own pension fund in my Swiss account, with a frozen 9% interest for the next 10 years. I paid on average 60 a month into it (depending on bills etc) and in interest alone per year I got roughly 60 per year. Better than any pension scheme operated by the government / banks here. Only stipulation is once every 5 years I go to Switzerland to see my banker, update any family details, wills blah blah blah.
    I agree, private school pension seems a lot more inviting to teachers than LGPS. The problem is they dont seem to HAVE to offer to any other staff, so we're stuffed. So really my only option is paying into a private one, with no employer contribution. to be honest i'd be better off paying into a cash isa and getting the 4% interest a month on it. at least that will take a few years to fill up to the max (is it 25k?).

  13. #192

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    32k is now the max I believe...just open an offshore savings account in Switzerland (can now be done by mail), transfer money into it after you open it, do this every month....interest is much higher and its done in the currency of choice (GBP for me).

  14. #193
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    Any chance of updating the misleading thread title as it's the whole public sector who are being asked to strike rather than just Unison?

  15. #194

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveBentley View Post
    Any chance of updating the misleading thread title as it's the whole public sector who are being asked to strike rather than just Unison?
    It is only currently a Unison strike, as they're the only ones who have announced the result of their ballot.

  16. #195


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    Can anyone correct/update me on this, but am I right in saying that Pension income is taxable?

    I'm fairly sure it falls under income tax, therefore 20% of it is going back to the gov anyway....

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