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General Chat Thread, Unison and other Unions Strike 30/11/2011 in General; Originally Posted by Earthling Then thank previous generations of trade union members and activists for this expectation being met, and ...
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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    Then thank previous generations of trade union members and activists for this expectation being met, and take a closer, less-blinkered look around you at present day T&C's in most jobs of work, then compare them to those of 100 - 150 years ago.

    Oh that's right.....there weren't any......you did what you were told or got sacked.
    Evidence that this is down to unions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Evidence that this is down to unions?
    Because no businessman has ever decided it needed more constraints and clauses by which workers should do less work, or it should be harder to get rid of people you don't like....

    Wheither they were originally organised/recognised unions is variable and debateable, but the point stands that the majority of cases where employment law has been changed in favour of employee's, and even sometimes the employers, it is a united group of people who have pushed them through. Pick just about any change and you will find some union or guild behind it somewhere.

    Asking for evidence of this, you might as well ask for evidence that the victorian ages existed, when the evidence is all around us.

  3. #168

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    Because no businessman has ever decided it needed more constraints and clauses by which workers should do less work, or it should be harder to get rid of people you don't like....

    Wheither they were originally organised/recognised unions is variable and debateable, but the point stands that the majority of cases where employment law has been changed in favour of employee's, and even sometimes the employers, it is a united group of people who have pushed them through. Pick just about any change and you will find some union or guild behind it somewhere.

    Asking for evidence of this, you might as well ask for evidence that the victorian ages existed, when the evidence is all around us.
    Or, like many of our rules, they could've been introduced by a socialist government which believes in protecting the workforce. Or they could have been introduced by the EU... It isn't all because of unions is my point. They aren't some angelic force out to make the world a better place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    Then thank previous generations of trade union members and activists for this expectation being met, and take a closer, less-blinkered look around you at present day T&C's in most jobs of work, then compare them to those of 100 - 150 years ago.

    Oh that's right.....there weren't any......you did what you were told or got sacked.
    In 1940 my father lost his job in the coal mines when coal exports to France ceased after Dunkirk & the private employers weren't making enough profit producing coal to 'keep the home fires burning'; then in 1941 he lost his job in a factory making weapons for the Navy because he was a member of a union......

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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    In 1940 my father lost his job in the coal mines when coal exports to France ceased after Dunkirk & the private employers weren't making enough profit producing coal to 'keep the home fires burning'; then in 1941 he lost his job in a factory making weapons for the Navy because he was a member of a union......
    For every story of a union losing a member their job, there must be thousands of stories of a union saving it's members their jobs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    They aren't some angelic force out to make the world a better place.
    As previously stated, they are out to make the world a better place - for their members.

    It just so happens that many of the rules they fought to establish have also become standardised in almost every industry. Such as the minimum wage, or annual leave.
    Last edited by Gardinho; 7th November 2011 at 06:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Evidence that this is down to unions?
    I'm sure you'll correct me, as I'm sure I must be wrong, but wasn't the Equal Pay Act enacted after a strike by the Ford Sewing Machinists in Dagenham. Or was that a 'Wildcat' strike, not backed or supported by any union?

    @broc In 1971, I was working for old National Coal Board in South Wales at their Computer Centre. It was the time of one of the Miniers' Strikes and my union was affiliated to the NUM, so technically, we were in dispute with the Board, too. I found another job during the dispute, handed in my notice and, in passing, told the Union Rep. He warned me that the Union were within their rights to fine me a sum of money for 'Leaving the Board's employ while In Dispute'...... No 'Congratulations', no thought of me being a young man (I was n-n-n-nineteen) advancing himself in his chosen career, just that I was 'Deserting The Cause'. But fair enough, that's what Unions are about, I guess, the many not the few.

    My point is, I'm not a great lover of Unions, I'm not a raving Socialist Leftie, I'm about as apolitical as a body can be. But they are necessary to maintain a balance, and balance is all-important in any aspect of life.

  8. 3 Thanks to Earthling:

    Gardinho (8th November 2011), laserblazer (8th November 2011), SimpleSi (8th November 2011)

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    Crickey Earthling, you're nearly as old as me!

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    I'm sure you'll correct me, as I'm sure I must be wrong, but wasn't the Equal Pay Act enacted after a strike by the Ford Sewing Machinists in Dagenham. Or was that a 'Wildcat' strike, not backed or supported by any union?
    There's no mention of unions anywhere that I can find, just that they striked, the TUC have a history page where they talk about it but don't mention any unions (which, I can only assume means they weren't involved). It was part in response to the strike and part in response to Article 119 of the EEC Treaty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laserblazer View Post
    Crickey Earthling, you're nearly as old as me!
    Just turned 59, 60 next year, aiming to take early retirement July 2013, then I can just enjoy my computing instead of getting home and not wanting to switch my pc on because I've just been doing 'that' all day.

    If everything works out to my cunning plan, it's a couple of days in San Francisco, then a two-week stopover in Hawaii, then onto Tahiti, then to whichever South Pacific Island will have me for the rest of my natural.

    I'd rather take my chances somewhere warmer and third-world than be a pensioner in Northern Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    There's no mention of unions anywhere that I can find, just that they striked, the TUC have a history page where they talk about it but don't mention any unions (which, I can only assume means they weren't involved). It was part in response to the strike and part in response to Article 119 of the EEC Treaty.
    There......I just knew I had to be wrong.


  13. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    There......I just knew I had to be wrong.

    Surely if it was a coordinated strike it means they were in union, so in a union????

  14. #178

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    There......I just knew I had to be wrong.

    Didn't claim you were wrong, said what my assumption would be and what all the various stories about it say, including the one on the TUC site and the article the BBC wrote about it in response to the movie 'Made in Dagenham'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by creese View Post
    Surely if it was a coordinated strike it means they were in union, so in a union????
    Tea and militancy | World news | The Guardian

    "Because the National Union of Vehicle Builders ran a closed shop at Dagenham, the women machinists were unionised......"

  16. 3 Thanks to Earthling:

    creese (8th November 2011), Gardinho (8th November 2011), localzuk (8th November 2011)

  17. #180

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    Tea and militancy | World news | The Guardian

    "Because the National Union of Vehicle Builders ran a closed shop at Dagenham, the women machinists were unionised......"
    Cool, interesting to see evidence

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