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General Chat Thread, Benefit Culture in General; What other industry has wiped out more jobs? Or even on a similar scale? It continues to wipe out jobs ...
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    What other industry has wiped out more jobs? Or even on a similar scale? It continues to wipe out jobs as computers are able to do more and more.

    The combine harvester put farm-hands out of work, but it stopped there, it didn't put road-sweepers out of work, or lighthouse-men. Computers are still finding their way into every area of work and wipe out most jobs where they can be used, instead of using people.

    Deny it if you will, say I'm wrong if you will, have the last word/post, if you must.

    But I'm right.


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    CapEnd (2nd November 2011)

  3. #47

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    Yes, it annoys the hell out of me. But I'd rather work and deserve what I earn as an individual and actually feel like I have achieved/done something with my life, albeit work, but you get the idea!

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    Shoot me down if you wish, but, there are too many people on this planet, with the resources available. Yet, we still give money and try to save people from starvation around the world.
    I have said this before, and have been called a lot of things for saying it, but I am in no way a racist, and hate racism of any kind.

    We give so much to save people from starvation, so they can produce more children that we have to also save from starvation.

    Its like putting a fish that eats all other fish into a large lake. Eventually the population of the big fish will grow and grow, and they will run out of little fish to eat. Then they all die.

    Thoughts?

  5. #49
    gmj
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    Heard the same (well…similar) big fish in a lake eating all the other fish and thus death for all point before. Perhaps it does indeed ring true.

    Over population of the plant is indeed quite a problem…with being enough resources to go around and all that. My vegan better half always like to point out that if the human race were all on a vegan diet there would be plenty many times over for us all…..think its something to do with all the food used for beef production and what-not…..normally at this point into her mini rant I just focus on my bacon/steak or puka pie though.

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    CapEnd (2nd November 2011)

  7. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmj View Post
    My vegan better half always like to point out that if the human race were all on a vegan diet there would be plenty many times over for us all…..think its something to do with all the food used for beef production and what-not…..normally at this point into her mini rant I just focus on my bacon/steak or puka pie though.
    Yup, it requires a huge amount more resources to raise cattle than it does to grow grain or other produce, and the outcome is more food from the grain growing than the cattle raising too.

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    It is the amount of people that is the problem.

    Humans are supposed to eat meat, its just when there are too many people, we run short of meat. The whole world becoming vegan isnt the answer. Reducing the worlds population to a sustainable level, and not allowing it to get out of control is something we should be seriously concerned about.

    Imagine when there are 10 billion people, there will be wars for oil, wars for food, wars for clean water.

    The earth is doomed.

  9. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapEnd View Post
    The earth is doomed.
    May aswell end it now.

  10. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by CapEnd View Post
    It is the amount of people that is the problem.

    Humans are supposed to eat meat, its just when there are too many people, we run short of meat. The whole world becoming vegan isnt the answer. Reducing the worlds population to a sustainable level, and not allowing it to get out of control is something we should be seriously concerned about.

    Imagine when there are 10 billion people, there will be wars for oil, wars for food, wars for clean water.

    The earth is doomed.
    I do get kinda saddened when I hear 'supposed to eat meat'. It is basically nonsense. It is fact that our bodies can't process red meat correctly. It is fact that we can't eat chicken without cooking it, same with pork and lamb.

    So, in what way are we 'supposed' to eat meat?

    No, it is simply what we happen to do. It is entirely possible to live entirely on a vegan diet.

    It is not possible to 'reduce' the population of humans - that would require the agreement of every country on the planet, and every person on the planet then sticking to the rules. Just not going to happen.

    We can make what we are doing with ourselves at the moment more sustainable though - for example, by eating less meat (you reduce water consumption, energy usage, fuel usage, co2 production, methane production, deforestation if you were buying from one of those companies that ships meat in from Brazil and various other advantages).

    It is people's cultures that need changing. Getting people to work, getting people to live healthily and sustainably, getting people to think about the future and each other rather than themselves, right here and right now.

    But as a doctor once told me, it was easier to prescribe a pill than to get someone to change their lifestyle, so they prescribe more pills. The same happens with all the other problems we have.

  11. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    It is not possible to 'reduce' the population of humans - that would require the agreement of every country on the planet, and every person on the planet then sticking to the rules. Just not going to happen.

    We can make what we are doing with ourselves at the moment more sustainable though - for example, by eating less meat (you reduce water consumption, energy usage, fuel usage, co2 production, methane production, deforestation if you were buying from one of those companies that ships meat in from Brazil and various other advantages).
    Those two sentences contradict. You are saying we cannot do something to globally reduce the population....but then say by me eating less meat it reduces co2 consumption and deforestation. well no, that would still require a vast amount of people to do it for it to then be less economic to these places to carry on.
    both of your solutions require global changes, not just a few of us saying we wont eat meat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I do get kinda saddened when I hear 'supposed to eat meat'. It is basically nonsense. It is fact that our bodies can't process red meat correctly. It is fact that we can't eat chicken without cooking it, same with pork and lamb.

    So, in what way are we 'supposed' to eat meat?

    No, it is simply what we happen to do. It is entirely possible to live entirely on a vegan diet.

    It is not possible to 'reduce' the population of humans - that would require the agreement of every country on the planet, and every person on the planet then sticking to the rules. Just not going to happen.

    We can make what we are doing with ourselves at the moment more sustainable though - for example, by eating less meat (you reduce water consumption, energy usage, fuel usage, co2 production, methane production, deforestation if you were buying from one of those companies that ships meat in from Brazil and various other advantages).

    It is people's cultures that need changing. Getting people to work, getting people to live healthily and sustainably, getting people to think about the future and each other rather than themselves, right here and right now.

    But as a doctor once told me, it was easier to prescribe a pill than to get someone to change their lifestyle, so they prescribe more pills. The same happens with all the other problems we have.
    There will come a time when the human population will be forcibly reduced, due to lack of oil, food, water etc. Probably in our lifetime, if not in our childrens lifetime.
    The energy problem is the one that will hit first. Other technologies are not good enough to support our demand for energy. When it runs out, it will be a bad day on planet earth.

    Is meat not a concentrated form of the energy from plants? If it is, then we would need to eat a lot more plants than would be available in certain parts of the world.

    In countries like Africa, where people are starving because of lack of food, we ship in rice from other countries. Surely if the land cannot support the people living there, then the people living there should stop creating more people.

    Would you still be saying the same thing about the human population when there are 10, 20, 30 billion people on the planet?

  13. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    Those two sentences contradict. You are saying we cannot do something to globally reduce the population....but then say by me eating less meat it reduces co2 consumption and deforestation. well no, that would still require a vast amount of people to do it for it to then be less economic to these places to carry on.
    both of your solutions require global changes, not just a few of us saying we wont eat meat.
    Sorry, that makes no sense - what has my comment saying we can't reduce the population got to do with the existing population eating less meat?

  14. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Sorry, that makes no sense - what has my comment saying we can't reduce the population got to do with the existing population eating less meat?
    It is not possible to 'reduce' the population of humans - that would require the agreement of every country on the planet, and every person on the planet then sticking to the rules. Just not going to happen
    you said that getting something agreed by every country on the planet and every person to stick to is impossible. you then say why can't the existing population eat less meat?
    because it would still require every person on the planet (or near enough) to agree and stick to. otherwise supply and demand will mean co2 and deforestation among other things will still happen.

  15. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by CapEnd View Post
    Is meat not a concentrated form of the energy from plants? If it is, then we would need to eat a lot more plants than would be available in certain parts of the world.
    Yes and no. Yes, it is concentrated, no it doesn't give you the same energy as the plants that were used to produce it. ie. 10 tonnes of grain to make 1 tonne of beef does not then give the same energy output as eating that 10 tonnes of grain would have.

    In countries like Africa, where people are starving because of lack of food, we ship in rice from other countries. Surely if the land cannot support the people living there, then the people living there should stop creating more people.

    Would you still be saying the same thing about the human population when there are 10, 20, 30 billion people on the planet?
    The land in many of these places *can* support growing crops, with proper irrigation techniques etc... However, these places most of the time lack electricity, stable governments, water, money etc... to implement all this.

    The problem is overpopulation, yes, but it is not a simple answer to reduce that population. It is unethical to sit back and let people die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post

    The problem is overpopulation, yes, but it is not a simple answer to reduce that population. It is unethical to sit back and let people die.
    #

    But it is ethical to let the population get so out of control that everyone dies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    you said that getting something agreed by every country on the planet and every person to stick to is impossible. you then say why can't the existing population eat less meat?
    because it would still require every person on the planet (or near enough) to agree and stick to. otherwise supply and demand will mean co2 and deforestation among other things will still happen.
    Ok, put it this way. You are told to not have kids. Would the average person be annoyed at this? Yes. You are encouraged through various means to eat one less meat meal per week. If even 50% of the population do this, that is 1/14th of the world's meat intake gone.

    The latter is a LOT easier than the prior to do.

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