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General Chat Thread, Cut school leaving age to 14 in General; What are your views on this? BBC News - Cut school leaving age to 14, says Sir Chris Woodhead...
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    JJonas's Avatar
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    Cut school leaving age to 14


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    I agree in principle, so long as an active plan is put in place for them to learn a trade.

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    Jamman960's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure... isn't 14 a little too early? most kids don't know what they want to do at 16 let alone 14.

    If they can be forced into college to learn a trade and still get limited exposure to maths and english then it may work, it can't be seen as an easy way out though. I can't see work placements working - very few people would be willing to spend their time training a 14 year old along with all the issues that generally go with that age.
    Last edited by Jamman960; 3rd October 2011 at 09:45 AM.

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    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    Seems in line (along with the university fees debacle) with the ongoing trend of creating a less well educated population = less likely to see the way they are being treated + less likely to be able to voice their concerns.

    I also suspect that Mr Woodhead's company already has plans in place for supplying these "vocational training" much like NHS reformer Andrew Lansley's wife runs a firm advising private health companies...

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    tommej's Avatar
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    Let them quit school at 14 and play xbox all day.. brilliant idea!

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    I agree in principal with those students that have a basic understanding of literacy and numeracy leaving school but not at 14 maybe 16 and then only if they have an apprenticeship or something similar to enter into otherwise it should be conscription into the armed forces for at least 2 years (National service) as other countries have to keep youth off the streets and out of bad behaviour.

    We in this country have let standards slide and made too many excuses for those students who's parents have given up responsibility for them, this in turn leads to a disgruntled youth who basically has no aspirations and they are just left to meander through life without a purpose until the bad element of life gets a grip and takes over their life.

    Where does all this lead, prison for most or even face down in the gutter dead.......................Everyday this culture is getting worse and we as responsible adults must take responsibility for our youth not just blame the government..............it is a parental thing and the sooner people are made to understand this the better.

    We need to start taking those parents who shirk responsibility to task and make them sit up and take notice by educating and in some hardened cases taking legal action.

    We are too soft on those people who flout the law and constantly make excuses for those illiterate and basically ignorant people in our society, ignorance is not bliss it is an excuse for being lazy and not giving a damn about nobody else but themselves, time to wake up and smell the coffee

  7. 3 Thanks to bossman:

    LeMarchand (3rd October 2011), LosOjos (3rd October 2011), tommej (3rd October 2011)

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    You don't need a degee to work in IT either - Don't bother with that degree, say IT pros ? The Register
    I wish I had known that 35 years ago!

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    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unixman View Post
    You don't need a degee to work in IT either - Don't bother with that degree, say IT pros ? The Register
    I wish I had known that 35 years ago!
    What that article fails to mention is that getting employers to take notice of your CV if you don't have a degree is incredibly difficult! I'm talking at the levels of becoming a software designer here, without sounding cocky I'm pretty sure I could match the talents of any freshly qualified student in terms of programming, yet I can't get my foot in the door because I don't have the paper to back it up (I will have in a few years though...)

    Back on topic:
    Ridiculous idea! Kids are dropping out of school aged 16 and doing nothing with their lives now, how will allowing them to drop out sooner improve matters? All it will achieve will be to breed even more tax burdens.

    Unless a system is put in place as others have said whereby those who clearly aren't going to come out of school with their 5 A*-C are taken off to college to learn a manual trade so that they can still contribute to our society, all this will do is amplify an already dire situation.

    My personal opinion (and it's hard line, I admit!) is that if they aren't doing well at school, pack them off to college at 14 to learn a trade. If by 18 they're still showing no sign of wanting to contribute to our society, pack them off to the army. We as a country have to stop molly coddling these wasters!

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    bossman (3rd October 2011)

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    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    P.S. Isn't the school leaving age 16?

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    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarchand View Post
    P.S. Isn't the school leaving age 16?
    It still is for some students, but next year (or is it the year after?) compulsory education is until you're 18

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    LeMarchand (3rd October 2011)

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    Jamman960's Avatar
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    I think once you reach 16 you should have the choice of going off to work or carry on at school/college. I enjoyed college because I wanted to be there and was more or less surrounded by people that also wanted to be there and learn, there were a few people who were only there to collect the EMA money each week along with the bonus for being there enough - I really feel sorry for anyone who actually wants to go into further education but ends up being surrounded by these dropouts who really don't want to be there.

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    bossman (3rd October 2011)

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    What that article fails to mention is that getting employers to take notice of your CV if you don't have a degree is incredibly difficult! I'm talking at the levels of becoming a software designer here, without sounding cocky I'm pretty sure I could match the talents of any freshly qualified student in terms of programming, yet I can't get my foot in the door because I don't have the paper to back it up (I will have in a few years though...)

    Back on topic:
    Ridiculous idea! Kids are dropping out of school aged 16 and doing nothing with their lives now, how will allowing them to drop out sooner improve matters? All it will achieve will be to breed even more tax burdens.

    Unless a system is put in place as others have said whereby those who clearly aren't going to come out of school with their 5 A*-C are taken off to college to learn a manual trade so that they can still contribute to our society, all this will do is amplify an already dire situation.

    My personal opinion (and it's hard line, I admit!) is that if they aren't doing well at school, pack them off to college at 14 to learn a trade. If by 18 they're still showing no sign of wanting to contribute to our society, pack them off to the army. We as a country have to stop molly coddling these wasters!
    Alternatively we could stop trying to force kids through a "one size fits all" education, it doesn't work!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tommej View Post
    Alternatively we could stop trying to force kids through a "one size fits all" education, it doesn't work!
    Think that's the point I was making

    Fair enough, not everybody is academic - give those kids the choice to learn a trade instead. If they don't want to do either - well they're most likely never going to amount to anything! Send them to the army to get straightened out, instil some discipline in them and then they might actually do something with their lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamman960 View Post
    I think once you reach 16 you should have the choice of going off to work or carry on at school/college. I enjoyed college because I wanted to be there and was more or less surrounded by people that also wanted to be there and learn, there were a few people who were only there to collect the EMA money each week along with the bonus for being there enough - I really feel sorry for anyone who actually wants to go into further education but ends up being surrounded by these dropouts who really don't want to be there.


    Can anyone seriously say there is any benifit of forcing a kid to carry on with acidemic education when they neither want or are capable of being there? imo they are only going to doss it off and will only help them down the path of believing that lilfe is about being lazy and taking handouts.

    Out of my friends the most successful of us are the ones who finished school and went straight into an apprentiship etc. The majority of the ones who went on to do degrees are earning less than the ones who have worked their way up the ladder and they also have student loans to pay (which for the future kids is going to get worse). Never mind the fact that while everyone was in education house prices rocketted pricing them out while people who went out and got a minimum wage job in a factory now own houses worth £200k.... but thats another story

    It annoys me the attitude of "everyone should be educated to degree standard". Why? For a start not everyone is capible of it, and secondly even if they were not everyone can have that type of job, someone has to be a plumber, a secutary, a bin man... So why not let the kids who have zero interest in acidemic subjects out into trade apprentiship schemes?
    Last edited by j17sparky; 3rd October 2011 at 12:04 PM.

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    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    I'm inclined to support it, in all honesty. Whilst personally I'm very academic (which can also be read as Useless At Real Life) I've worked at a school where very few were. Fortunately for them, there was a recently built (and fantastic) vocational block, including a car garage, brick laying area etc... so for those who aren't academic, vocational training is essential. Most of those who drop out and truant, where family issues aren't the cause, are those who struggle with the single-track education system and are left disillusioned by being forced into Maths they have no need for.

    It's not a perfect idea, by any means, and needs polishing - and as others have said, what 14 year old knows what they want to do with their life? I'm 26 and I don't have a clue - but the intention is, surprisingly, a good one. I'd say - drop the SATs, do GCSEs in Year 9 & 10, then the option of streaming into Vocational Training (at a college) or Academic Training (AS Levels at a school). The first year of the vocational training should be a foundation year - a bit of electrics, bit of plumbing, bit of car mechanics etc. alongside a basic practical Maths & English course - i.e. this is how you invoice, work out VAT, do your tax returns, write a job advert etc. After the first year, let them specialise for the next two years and come out with a decent qualification in a trade. Or, after that first year, let em join the forces if they want.

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