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General Chat Thread, Cut school leaving age to 14 in General; As I have not mentioned in my post earlier, the reason for the government having to apply this stop til ...
  1. #16

    bossman's Avatar
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    As I have not mentioned in my post earlier, the reason for the government having to apply this stop til your 18 years old legislation is that other third world countries are upstaging us on the education front at every turn and thus we are finding it very hard to compete in a world market.

    Yes we need plumbers, electricians etc but what happens is that they still need to have qualifications and be able to follow Health and safety regulations etc so what happens to those students who just want to turn up and not do anything to gain these?

    Plus we as a country are always moaning about other foreigners pinching our jobs, yes they will and they will keep on doing it while they have better skills and qualifications and charge less for the job they do, how many times I have been quoted astronomical prices for work to be undertaken when along comes another company who's workforce are better educated and qualified and charge me less, I say to all students and people out there who think that they can sit on their backsides once they have gained employment to think again, this world has changed and will keep on changing and those who are not prepared to change with it will fall by the wayside as is already the case.

    We are way too soft on those people not willing to apply themselves and aspire to look after themselves but wait to receive handouts like their parents did and before anyone turns to me and states that there has to be a safety net for those people genuinely out of work then I say yes but how many are genuine cases.

    People who are self employed but are not declaring what they earn and then drawing on the state benefits these people are just like those huge corporations who avoid taxes they are the scum of the earth and if I come across any knowledge of either then I will not hesitate to inform the authorities.

    Everyone should do this to get the message across to those people who feel they can cheat the system.

    Sorry for the rant but this is something I am really passionate about.

  2. #17

    witch's Avatar
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    I think 14 is too young to know what you want to do - but at 16 children should certainly have the chance to move away from mainstream school and do something more suited to their talents - IF and it is a big IF, there is something for them to do. Our local comp has it all pretty much sorted - the 6th form consists of children who are academically inclined, many of whom go off to uni when they are done, and other children who are doing useful BTEC type qualifications in catering, building, boatbuilding and the like.
    It's all very well to say 'make them do national service' but whilst it might teach them some discipline, there still won't be any jobs when they come out. Likewise sending them into the Army itself isnt a good idea - no armed force wants to be full of youngsters who dont want to be there and who wont obey the rules if they are forced to go.

  3. #18

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    14 is far too young and will almost certainly lead to an increase of young people who don't yet have plans or aspirations either making the wrong decision or using it as an excuse to quit and waste their life entirely. I think it's a ridiculous idea, however one that could perhaps be "altered" in certain ways. How about at the age of 14, giving the option of continuing education (state/private) or enlisting into the Army to be taught by them, increasing discipline and strenghtening our faltering forces. It's not as harsh as the old days of enforced enscription but gives them a little choice - one that may help some of our discipline based issues.

    It's a shame really as there are indeed plenty of 14 year olds who are more than aware of what they want to do and are mature beyond their years. It isn't the case on the majority, though.

  4. #19


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    [QUOTE=bossman;734579]<SNIP>

    People who are self employed but are not declaring what they earn and then drawing on the state benefits these people are just like those huge corporations who avoid taxes they are the scum of the earth and if I come across any knowledge of either then I will not hesitate to inform the authorities.

    Everyone should do this to get the message across to those people who feel they can cheat the system.

    <SNIP>QUOTE]

    Just out of interest.....how many huge corporations have you informed on for not paying their proper share of taxes?

    Just asking.

  5. #20

    bossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    It's all very well to say 'make them do national service' but whilst it might teach them some discipline, there still won't be any jobs when they come out. Likewise sending them into the Army itself isnt a good idea - no armed force wants to be full of youngsters who dont want to be there and who wont obey the rules if they are forced to go.
    Just as I have mentioned in my previous posts, we as a nation have become too soft with our young people and because of this each generation has become more and more needy, we as a country cannot carry on like this and we also cannot make excuses for those that are not willing to co-operate, those students not prepared to aspire both academically or vocationally would be conscripted and they would not have a choice in the matter and if they think they would be able to buck the armed service discipline and refuse to co-operate would not find a compassionate person with whom they could turn to to find them an excuse not to do what is required of them.

    Not only would they learn discipline but comradeship and communication plus other life skills which quite a lot of our young people lack today. I blame parents for giving them too much and young people becoming ever more reliant on handouts from parents who feel that they are doing the right thing but in actual fact they are slowly denying their offspring the capacity to fend for themselves and so they will not learn from there experiences and therefore will not put anything back in to society.

    "Spare the rod and spoil the child" an apt saying but I don't mean literally but we as parents must take on some of the responsibility for some of the characteristics of our youth.

    I admire most of our young people very much and deal with them every day in school but you can see those students who's parents don't give them the start in life they need.

  6. #21

    witch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bossman View Post
    ... those students not prepared to aspire both academically or vocationally would be conscripted and they would not have a choice in the matter and if they think they would be able to buck the armed service discipline and refuse to co-operate would not find a compassionate person with whom they could turn to to find them an excuse not to do what is required of them.
    Sounds like institutionalised bullying to me

  7. #22


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    I don't know.......for years we've been raising the school-leaving age, preventing kids leaving an education system which is out-of-date, broken and not fit for purpose anymore.

    Now, someone (probably with a vested interest) wants to lower it again for certain kids.

    Why don't we start again with the whole shooting match? Invest PROPERLY in education, stop using it as a political football, redesign the system from the bottom up. Then perhaps, we might start producing a work-force that someone wants.

    One of the most chilling things I realised when I started here, was the number of year 7's who are admitted with Literacy skills of 7 - 9 years and lower, in some cases.

    I despair of this country, at times, I really do.

    You guys can sort this lot out, I'm retiring soon.......abroad.


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  9. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    Sounds like institutionalised bullying to me
    +1 .... in a way.

    I'm not really sure the Army would want to take the ones who are 'not prepared to aspire both academically or vocationally ', and I'm not sure I'd want them guarding the wall for me, either. I don't know much about military hardware, but I do know it gets more sophisticated as technology advances.

    Personally, I'd rather have an army of regulars that knows how to work it's equipment, not an army of conscripts that can't read, can hardly write and can't express themselves verbally, either.

    But hey, what do I know?

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    witch (3rd October 2011)

  11. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    I don't know.......for years we've been raising the school-leaving age, preventing kids leaving an education system which is out-of-date, broken and not fit for purpose anymore.

    Now, someone (probably with a vested interest) wants to lower it again for certain kids.

    Why don't we start again with the whole shooting match? Invest PROPERLY in education, stop using it as a political football, redesign the system from the bottom up. Then perhaps, we might start producing a work-force that someone wants.

    One of the most chilling things I realised when I started here, was the number of year 7's who are admitted with Literacy skills of 7 - 9 years and lower, in some cases.

    I despair of this country, at times, I really do.

    You guys can sort this lot out, I'm retiring soon.......abroad.

    Completely agree on the reading age problem, it is the number 1 problem that needs addressing as quickly as possible at as young an age as possible. Also there is a need to inspire a love of reading for pleasure, which then instills an imagination and an ability to self learn.

  12. #25

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    I don't know.......for years we've been raising the school-leaving age, preventing kids leaving an education system which is out-of-date, broken and not fit for purpose anymore.

    Now, someone (probably with a vested interest) wants to lower it again for certain kids.

    Why don't we start again with the whole shooting match? Invest PROPERLY in education, stop using it as a political football, redesign the system from the bottom up. Then perhaps, we might start producing a work-force that someone wants.

    One of the most chilling things I realised when I started here, was the number of year 7's who are admitted with Literacy skills of 7 - 9 years and lower, in some cases.

    I despair of this country, at times, I really do.

    You guys can sort this lot out, I'm retiring soon.......abroad.

    Quite a good post IMO - you look at the level of fluency in English that most Europeans have, then look at our levels of fluency in German/French...

  13. #26

    aerospacemango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    +1 .... in a way.

    I'm not really sure the Army would want to take the ones who are 'not prepared to aspire both academically or vocationally ', and I'm not sure I'd want them guarding the wall for me, either. I don't know much about military hardware, but I do know it gets more sophisticated as technology advances.

    Personally, I'd rather have an army of regulars that knows how to work it's equipment, not an army of conscripts that can't read, can hardly write and can't express themselves verbally, either.

    But hey, what do I know?
    You also have to understand that it is illegal to send anyone under the age of 18 to war.

    Therefore, you're taking x amount of 14-18 year olds, which makes the Services look large, but have no actual fighting complement.

    Also, if you're considering sending these 14-18 year old to college to do apprenticeships, and suchlike, where are the manufacturing jobs for them to take once they complete their course? We don't have the manufacturing base for current school leavers, let alone a whole batch of 14-16 year olds!

    It would seem that this country is getting madder by the day!

  14. #27

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    Quite a good post IMO - you look at the level of fluency in English that most Europeans have, then look at our levels of fluency in German/French...
    The problem with that is that for other European countries, English is the obvious choice for a second language given its large international base. When English is already your first language, the choice of second isn't so obvious - you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Personally I learnt French at school, and then ended up moving to a German speaking country when I was older.

    Saying that - most of the Swiss I met out there had a better command of English than the majority of people back home, and my wife (working with Year 7 at another school) says there are at least 3 or 4 kids this year who can't even write their own name, at which point you have to ask some very serious questions about how they ever got through primary school without that being picked up on. Potentially though, at the moment, it was picked up on, but the LEA hs been heavily discouraging statements for the last couple of years due to funding... so these kids are left to rot. Brilliant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    You also have to understand that it is illegal to send anyone under the age of 18 to war.

    Therefore, you're taking x amount of 14-18 year olds, which makes the Services look large, but have no actual fighting complement.

    Also, if you're considering sending these 14-18 year old to college to do apprenticeships, and suchlike, where are the manufacturing jobs for them to take once they complete their course? We don't have the manufacturing base for current school leavers, let alone a whole batch of 14-16 year olds!

    It would seem that this country is getting madder by the day!
    We don't have enough jobs period. We have relatively few high tech jobs and what we do have are getting fewer. We have no manufacturing as it all went abroad, and any projects (even govt. ones) are sent abroad as it's cheaper [in the short term]. We have few low skill services jobs (ie call centres) as it all went abroad. The housing market is on its ass so we have few construction/trade jobs. Farmers get screwed over by the big supermarkets... The govt. have no interest in renewing our infrastructure - roads, rail, comms, water, electricity...

    For too long the country has believed that we can rely on the housing market and banks to build and invest our way along. How about we start producing a product again?
    Last edited by j17sparky; 3rd October 2011 at 01:40 PM.

  16. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky View Post
    We don't have enough jobs period. We have relatively few high tech jobs and what we do have are getting fewer. We have no manufacturing as it all went abroad. We have few low skill services jobs (ie call centres) as it all went abroad. The housing market is on its ass so we have few construction/trade jobs. Farmers get screwed over by the big supermarkets... The govt. have no interest in renewing our infrastructure - roads, rail, comms, water, electricity...
    On the other hand: less educated populace = fewer people capable of getting the highly paid jobs = the rich get richer. As the (no longer able to be) working class get more desperate, there's only one place they can get work: in service. The likes of David Scameron and Tory Blair will be able to employ a full complement of proles to perform all those menial tasks and they won't even have to pay them much. It'll be a return to Victorian Values indeed.

  17. #30

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Just because you're under 18 doesn't mean you can't join the Army or other forces - plenty you can learn in 4 years without going to war. Respect and discipline will last a lifetime.

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