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General Chat Thread, Once you've finished your tea you can fight in General; BBC News - Boys' fight in cage 'very barbaric' says Jeremy Hunt Reading through the comments on this story on ...
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    MK-2's Avatar
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    Once you've finished your tea you can fight

    BBC News - Boys' fight in cage 'very barbaric' says Jeremy Hunt

    Reading through the comments on this story on the BBC and other places it seems people are coming to the conclusion that its exactly the same as a kid doing judo or other form of martial art as its well refereed, there is no danger to the kids so why the concern?

    My problem is that judo, karate, or anything else isn't done in a working mans club, surrounded by beer swilling fag smoking dads goading their kids on, each bout isn't paraded around by a woman in a skimpy bikini and it isn't in a cage.

    Some of the comments from parents are ridiculous too, things like "well if my son wasn't doing this, he'd be throwing stones at buses and causing trouble somewhere....here he is out of trouble". speaks volumes for your parenting there!
    also comments like "this is good harmless sport, would you rather the kids go around with guns and knives". oh im sorry its one or the other is it? we can't have kids that neither fight in a cage OR carry guns and knives? again speaks volumes if you are saying "if i didnt let my 8 year old fight in a cage while i supped beer, he'd be out shooting people"

    Quote Originally Posted by Club manager Michelle Anderson
    the boys were not cage-fighting but "grappling".
    ah i'm sorry, my mistake, i must have mistaken the cage surrounding them as they fought for some sort of fluffy bunny. also the big CAGE banners around the cage gave me a hint it was a cage..

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    tommej's Avatar
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    We've held boxing events for younger kids at my school, as long as there is a doctor/trained medical person there I can't really see a problem.

    Riding bikes is pretty dangerous too! :O Lets ban that!


    Is the problem here the fighting, the cage, or the fact its in a working mens club?
    Last edited by tommej; 22nd September 2011 at 11:27 AM.

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    Hightower's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with the actual fighting, but what I did find inappropriate was the whole walking out with a robe on, shaking hands with spectators, and generally acting like the thing was a world heavyweight boxing match. That just took it too far to me, and told me that the whole thing was put on as entertainment for adults, not to get kids involved in sports.

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    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    is your problem that the spectators were drinking and smoking?

    Go to any rugby club on a sunday and the dads will be out on the touchline, pint in hand, supporting their boys. A couple of them might be smoking too.

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    I think this is the problem...

    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    Some of the comments from parents are ridiculous too, things like "well if my son wasn't doing this, he'd be throwing stones at buses and causing trouble somewhere....here he is out of trouble". speaks volumes for your parenting there!
    If they would have interviewed someone else, maybe it could have had a different image of the "sport". I agree that I dont think it is an OR statement here, I dont think there needs to be a choice between being out causing trbouble or keeping out of mishcief fighting in a controlled environment.

    I dont have a problem with it from what I've read it's just grappling, but as with @Hightower I dont like the way it tries to make it look like a world fight.... I get the feeling it seems a bit seedy to me.

    And yeah in lots of sport these days you have the parents on the sidelines watching and shouting abuse at the ref

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    MK-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommej View Post
    We've held boxing events for younger kids at my school, as long as there is a doctor/trained medical person there I can't really see a problem.
    Riding bikes is pretty dangerous too! :O Lets ban that!
    Is the problem here the fighting, the cage, or the fact its in a working mens club?
    the fact its in a working mens club would indicate it was put on (as @Hightower said) more for adult entertainment than as a sport.
    the fact the club owner said it wasn't cage fighting yet they had massive banners around a metal cage with the word cage on.
    this isn't being done for the kids benefit, this is being done for the adults.
    you may well have hosted boxing events at your school, now what about if you said lets host it in the local pub, or a car park at night....its the same event but the circumstances are entirely different

    Quote Originally Posted by Hightower View Post
    I don't have a problem with the actual fighting, but what I did find inappropriate was the whole walking out with a robe on, shaking hands with spectators, and generally acting like the thing was a world heavyweight boxing match. That just took it too far to me, and told me that the whole thing was put on as entertainment for adults, not to get kids involved in sports.
    exactly, this isn't geared up to "teach kids about sport" or get them involved. this is purely for adult entertainment, i mean do the kids really appreciate the scantily clad woman waving around ROUND1 on a board?
    Quote Originally Posted by RabbieBurns View Post
    is your problem that the spectators were drinking and smoking?

    Go to any rugby club on a sunday and the dads will be out on the touchline, pint in hand, supporting their boys. A couple of them might be smoking too.
    again its different, rugby will still require physical fitness, training etc. this smacked of some people who just want to see kids fight so organised it for them all to watch.
    there was no mention of the kids training, or wanting to do it (in fact in the video the kid is asked if he wants to do it and he just mumbles uhhhhh, while his mum doesn't say she agrees she just says "if he is happy doing it im happy" so if hes happy doing drugs i assume she will also be happy and have no input)

    Quote Originally Posted by penfold View Post

    And yeah in lots of sport these days you have the parents on the sidelines watching and shouting abuse at the ref
    But why are we wanting it to emulate adult life? why should we say well in professional football they shout abuse and encourage violent tackles so i'll do the same at my kids match?
    i'm pretty sure in acting there is still a lot of "sleeping your way to the top" but you wouldn't be happy if your 10yr old daughter came home and said "i got the part of peter pan in our play, all i had to do was screw the drama teacher".
    there seems to be a need nowadays to expose kids to the harshness of adult life, to show them how tough the world is.

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    Gibbo's Avatar
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    When I saw the footage it just seemed very seedy. Isn't there a word similar to Speedo for grown men getting excited watching young semi naked boys rolling around on the floor?

    I'm reminded of the similar story where a parent was letting her young daughter (<10) do pole dancing because it was exercise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    But why are we wanting it to emulate adult life? why should we say well in professional football they shout abuse and encourage violent tackles so i'll do the same at my kids match?
    i'm pretty sure in acting there is still a lot of "sleeping your way to the top" but you wouldn't be happy if your 10yr old daughter came home and said "i got the part of peter pan in our play, all i had to do was screw the drama teacher".
    there seems to be a need nowadays to expose kids to the harshness of adult life, to show them how tough the world is.
    No I dont think the way some people behave at childrens sporting matches is any way to show children how to behave. Similarly I dont think that being agressive and confrontational is any way to be in front of young children. I dont think there is anything wrong with the actual contact physical sporting part, but I agree that there is something wrong with the way it is carried out.

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    MK-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by penfold View Post
    No I dont think the way some people behave at childrens sporting matches is any way to show children how to behave. Similarly I dont think that being agressive and confrontational is any way to be in front of young children. I dont think there is anything wrong with the actual contact physical sporting part, but I agree that there is something wrong with the way it is carried out.
    i think the best user comment on the bbc i read was
    "at the base of this, its two half naked 8 year old boys fighting in a cage in a pub.....if that doesn't ring alarm bells!"

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    Gibbo's Avatar
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    What a shame someone was cowardly enough to give me neg reg and put:

    What an idiotic thing to say! I don't agree with the event put comparing the watchers to pedophiles is just plain offensive!
    But didn't have the guts to openly challenge me and my comment in this thread.

    Ashamed of your own opinions perhaps?

    What would you call them then? That's if you have the guts to respond.
    Last edited by Gibbo; 20th October 2011 at 12:03 PM.

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    captaincharisma's Avatar
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    I do think at that age they should be wearing full protective gear, saying that I don't think I would let my son do that sport at that age. Regardless of if its safe or not you give children the wrong impression by letting them fight like that, I think they would see it as a fight rather than a sport.

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    Gibbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincharisma View Post
    I do think at that age they should be wearing full protective gear, saying that I don't think I would let my son do that sport at that age. Regardless of if its safe or not you give children the wrong impression by letting them fight like that, I think they would see it as a fight rather than a sport.
    Agreed its a world away from a normal Judo or self defence class.

    Take aforementioned class.
    Now ask the kids to remove the white pyjamas.
    Move it from a school or community centre to a working mens club or pub.
    Allow strangers to watch.
    Let said strangers drink alcohol.
    Encompass the children in a cage.
    Film it.

    At what point in the above list does it become wrong?

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    captaincharisma's Avatar
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    Well if I had children I wouldn't let them take a class in that sport anyway, but from your 7 points I would be flagging at number 2.

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    Hmmm.

    Firstly, Rugby is not allowed to be a contact sport below the age, I think it's something like 13? I know my Year 4-6 cannot play contact rugby at all, and play tag rugby instead.

    Secondly, I've seen Cage fighting and MMA stuff with children before, but they always wore protective gear on their heads (though this coming off would happen on a fairly frequent occasion I seem to recall).

    As to the setting, it probably could have been better, it's fair to say the landlord put the event on to make money (name a commercial venue that doesn't want to!), but as long as the kids and the crowd are properly controlled, I do not personally see an issue. It looked to me like those on the main floor were not allowed drinks, and the bar area was seperated.

    A few (ok, many!) years ago I went to the National Irish dancing championships, and it was held at a Pontins site; the participants ranged from 5/6 up to adult, and they were all held in the various stage and bar areas, and the bar was open from about 11am onwards till the early hours every night.
    Ok the event was different, but would you not also be upset about a predominantly girl-based event where they were dressed up to the nines, covered in makeup and made to dance for the purpose of entertainment and competition, while parents and onlookers sat about cheering and more often than not drinking....

    The cage is there for the participants protection as much as anything else from what I saw.
    I personally would not be entirely happy about my children taking up this sport, but if it's a valid sport with full licensing, I cannot see the issue here. If you dont want to watch it or participate, then don't. It's not like your being forced to, and from what info we have, neither are the participants or the onlookers being forced to.

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    captaincharisma's Avatar
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    For me you have summed it up nicely.

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