Poll: How much annual holiday do you get per year?

Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.

+ Post New Thread
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 61 to 69 of 69
General Chat Thread, Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement in General; @Bossman: Which other staff members? I covered that - read on to the very next sentence, the one beginning "e.g." ...
  1. #61
    enjay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Reading, Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    4,490
    Thank Post
    282
    Thanked 196 Times in 167 Posts
    Rep Power
    76

    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    @Bossman:
    Which other staff members? I covered that - read on to the very next sentence, the one beginning "e.g." and you'll see (funnily enough) some examples.

    When do you take the time in lieu? How about during the holidays which are often a bit quieter, or other quieter points during the year.

    As for the funding, it is a common misconception that independent schools are rolling in it - we are not. We have the same budget problems which you do and we don't have the LEA giving extra money to invest in new technologies like whiteboards - that all comes out of our existing income.

    As for my work environment, I make no apology for the fact that I am (in your opinion) well paid. I am sorry that some of are being taken advantage of by your employers, but I do not feel I should apologise for the fact that I have an understanding manager and SMT.

    Finally, please lay off the personal insults and the aggression you are directing towards me - that is uncalled for in a professional forum such as this.

  2. #62

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Lowestoft
    Posts
    49
    Thank Post
    8
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
    Rep Power
    20

    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    I'm relatively new here but I would like to put my opinion in. I get the standard 22 days holiday and when I've worked another 2 years here I'll get my extra 5 days! woohoo! BUT, providing there is at least one other IT person here the school will allow me to take small amounts of time off during school time. This is when I personally support two primary schools as well - with me visiting one for at least 1 hour a day - I am the ICT Manager in a large high school.

    Add to this all the extra stuff I do and my working week will average around 50 -60 hours. I will admit I get paid very well and above the average for a normal NM, but I do a hell of a lot more than your average NM. It is a choice that I do these hours, the school would still function as I have a great team of technicians who can run things when I am not there. If your school can't cope with you not being there for a couple of days surely there is something terribly wrong!?

    I often have arguements with teachers over holiday time etc. especially when people claim to be working up to 90 hours a week (our head of IT often claims that) but as someone said earlier it is more likely that they are just not organised enough. I have family who work in all levels of education from primary to university and none of them (they all have large amounts of responsibility in their jobs) work nearly as much as I do.

    I do agree that holidays seen unfair to us people in education but it is our choice to work here and during the summer it is fantastic working as there are very little interuptions meaning so much more can be done. Teachers work hard for their holidays, but if we worked in industry where we would work probably even harder than we do now we would still only get 22 days or so. So why should it be different because we work in education? We often/mostly dont have to put up with constant abuse from students or physical attack (as my Dad does in a special school) as teachers do, so we get off lightly.

    People need to be more realistic and realise that mostly NM's and technicians in education get a pretty easy ride. Especially in the summer, you wouldn't have that luxury of working with hardly anyone else around in industry for 6 weeks.

    As for BSF... I work in a "normal" (not private) school and I will watch it as it passes on by. My school won't be stupid enough to sign up and will fight tooth and nail to not go down that route.

  3. #63

    bossman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,964
    Thank Post
    1,209
    Thanked 1,074 Times in 765 Posts
    Rep Power
    332

    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    NickJones:
    I find your attitude and manner most disconcerting when you talk about professionalism. I have in no way aimed any personal insults or remarks at you directly in fact quite the opposite i feel.

    As you have been made aware by the other professionals on the forum that they too are not happy about some of the comments you have made and that they do not agree fundamentally with what you are saying.

    You then have the gall to question my professionalism after you have back tracked on virtually every subject mentioned in this topic.

    I do not care to get into a jaded disagreement with a fellow professional but will fight my corner if pushed into it.

  4. #64
    enjay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Reading, Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    4,490
    Thank Post
    282
    Thanked 196 Times in 167 Posts
    Rep Power
    76

    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    Quote Originally Posted by bossman
    I have in no way aimed any personal insults or remarks at you directly in fact quite the opposite i feel.
    Except for your claim that I have no touch on "the real world" simply because I am in a different position to you. I would class the word "pompous" as insulting too.

    My stance is this - I am employed to do my job in a stated number of hours; anything which I cannot complete in this time will just have to wait. This is not me being a jobsworth but me carrying out the instructions given me by senior staff here. I know that many schools put upon their staff in unreasonable ways and demand a lot of free work for them. It is my opinion that this is unacceptable. Schools must change in the way they take advantage of their staff, and should be made to realise that what they are asking is unattainable with what they have. If one person on a 37-hour week cannot complete all the work, then the solution which the school MUST take is to find some way to reduce the workload, either by employing more staff or accepting that it takes time, and NOT to expect/demand more work outside hours. I am in the fortunate (and rare) position that my employer has already realised this and adjusted accordingly.

    If I have offended anyone in my posts then I am sorry. It was not my intention to judge or gloat, but to highlight that there is 'another way' (to quote the NatWest ads!) and offer some suggestions for how people could/should respond to unreasonable demands from management. In all this, I accept that I am "luckier" than many on this forum in terms of salary, working environment and demands. If my posts were misconstrued, I apologise unreservedly.

  5. #65
    Friez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    839
    Thank Post
    22
    Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts
    Rep Power
    23

    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    4 weeks holiday here. Used to be part time, lots of time off, but also much less cash. Now full time and very little time off

    Being paid a decent teachers wage for the time that I do would be delightful, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

    Also re: education. I have a BSc in computing, I've coded video game engines that have made it into the arcades. Funny how I'm working a 14k techy job.

    Just because you have qualifications doesn't make you instantly rich!

  6. #66

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    307
    Thank Post
    3
    Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
    Rep Power
    17

    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    @ Tobyhacker:
    "People need to be more realistic and realise that mostly NM's and technicians in education get a pretty easy ride. Especially in the summer, you wouldn't have that luxury of working with hardly anyone else around in industry for 6 weeks."

    Yes, I agree that the summer is great for getting work done, but when this is the only time you can take a summer holiday, that can mean 2 weeks are written off straight away. This gives you 4 weeks for upgrades, maintenance and testing. Not a lot of time to be honest. Fine if you have a good infrastructure and new computers, but if your still running 10 year old machines that struggle to boot, everything takes longer to do. Managing to get this done in in the summer so when september comes the whole Network is ready for a new year can get a bit tight.

    I also dont think that just because you work in industry means you work harder than i do here. Still get 22 days a year? fine but you are able to take them when you want (within reason).

    There are advantages and disadvantages to working in a school, while i feel there are more advantages I will stay. However I do feel that there is not the recognition or incentive to keep good NM's in schools. There are a lot of people who do a very good job with very little resources, it would be nice that the job could get a little better recognition and rewards to go with it. We are all professionals after all.

  7. #67

    bossman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,964
    Thank Post
    1,209
    Thanked 1,074 Times in 765 Posts
    Rep Power
    332

    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    Nick:
    I have read what you have had to say in this last response and you have been candied in your reasoning. I plus others who feel you may have taken advantage of your good situation when as you have put it "gloated" will accept any apology in good faith.

    if you feel that i have been personal in my responses towards you then you have indeed misread what i have had to say and you obviously have felt upset by this.

    It has never been my intention to point the finger or lay blame on anyone's doorstep and i think i have been very professional about this. It is with kind regards to others and yourself Nick that we as a selective group of people can voice our opinions in a professional way and accept when we have crossed the line and to make good by way of an apology for any upset we may or may not have caused.

    P.S. Nick, i agree totally with what you have said in your last post by the way:

    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones
    My stance is this - I am employed to do my job in a stated number of hours; anything which I cannot complete in this time will just have to wait. This is not me being a jobsworth but me carrying out the instructions given me by senior staff here. I know that many schools put upon their staff in unreasonable ways and demand a lot of free work for them. It is my opinion that this is unacceptable. Schools must change in the way they take advantage of their staff, and should be made to realise that what they are asking is unattainable with what they have. If one person on a 37-hour week cannot complete all the work, then the solution which the school MUST take is to find some way to reduce the workload, either by employing more staff or accepting that it takes time, and NOT to expect/demand more work outside hours. I am in the fortunate (and rare) position that my employer has already realised this and adjusted accordingly.

  8. #68

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Lowestoft
    Posts
    49
    Thank Post
    8
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
    Rep Power
    20

    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    Fair point. From my experience of working in industry I seemed to work on average over the year a lot harder than I do now (I work stupidly hard now but this is in spells not constantly) when taking into consideration teacher holidays and the work that my team and I do over the whole year I still think it is a better option and less stressful (in spells!) than working in industry.

    Yes, I agree that the summer is great for getting work done, but when this is the only time you can take a summer holiday, that can mean 2 weeks are written off straight away. This gives you 4 weeks for upgrades, maintenance and testing. Not a lot of time to be honest. Fine if you have a good infrastructure and new computers, but if your still running 10 year old machines that struggle to boot, everything takes longer to do. Managing to get this done in in the summer so when september comes the whole Network is ready for a new year can get a bit tight.
    We replaced our whole network one summer ... now that was a long and stressful summer!

    However I do feel that there is not the recognition or incentive to keep good NM's in schools. There are a lot of people who do a very good job with very little resources, it would be nice that the job could get a little better recognition and rewards to go with it. We are all professionals after all.
    I can not agree with you more, I'm lucky here that I have a supportive SLT who are starting to invest a lot into IT both equipment and personnel. But I know a lot of schools that aren't as lucky.

    As I always say, take a few teachers out of school no one will notice, letting an IT person out for lunch and the school will stop running!

  9. #69

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    9,992
    Thank Post
    1,359
    Thanked 1,828 Times in 1,135 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    602

    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    Ok ... enough is enough folks.

    THis is getting a bit too catty ... and I wouldn't mind but none of you lot, whether you be teachers or techies, work as hard as us Senior Manglers!!! (use of humour to dissolve situation ... very smooth ... well done Tony!)

    Shall I summarisethe converstions so far?

    Some people work the amount of hours specified in their contract, they fit *all* their work into their contractual hours and if the school wants to dump more work on them the schools has to accept that either the performance drops and stuff is done slower, or more resources (staff, hardware, software, knowledge) is required.

    Other people may work all hours $Deity sends because they know that the school needs x, y & z to be done so students can get the results they deserve. They are dedicated to helping the school in any shape they can.

    Teachers may start at 8-8.30 and go between 4-4.30 but depending on the subject they have work to do at home. Depending on their ability to manage their time it also varies. The most work tends to be done by subjects with a literary leaning ... long essays, lots to mark, lots to plan ... I would not be an English teacher for all the money in the world (and that trluy is a 60-70 hour week ... I know ... I live with it), but I know Maths teachers who do maybe 2 hours a week at home ... and PE teachers who do even less ... but they also spend about 15 hours a week coaching local clubs which actually does have a positive effect on what happens in schools.

    Let's face it folks, it varies from school to school and person to person. Some of us have made a rod for our own backs by working from home and doing the impossible for people that should plan better, others seem to think that work during non-work hours is stupid and down to poor management.

    Both are right and both are wrong ... we can go on forever about being underpaid and over worked ... we are not the only people in the world to have this problem and we will not be the last ... Now can we get back to the original question about holidays ...

    I have 5 weeks but can take up to 10 days during term-time. At the moment my BETT time is taken as holiday , but that is changing next year depending on a few things. If I can tag the college's name in somewhere and do a bit of PR then I can claim it as school work.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345

Similar Threads

  1. Annual leave entitlement
    By broc in forum General Chat
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 19th May 2009, 09:52 AM
  2. How much you doing this holiday?
    By localzuk in forum General Chat
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 12th July 2007, 10:30 AM
  3. The EduGeek annual Christmas message
    By Dos_Box in forum General EduGeek News/Announcements
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 26th December 2006, 01:53 PM
  4. Replies: 20
    Last Post: 23rd December 2006, 09:36 PM
  5. Holiday time!
    By ajbritton in forum General Chat
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 25th June 2006, 08:09 AM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •