Poll: How much annual holiday do you get per year?

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General Chat Thread, Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement in General; 22 days and after 5 years an extra 5 days big wow. I do work a lot of unpaid overtime ...
  1. #31

    bossman's Avatar
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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    22 days and after 5 years an extra 5 days big wow. I do work a lot of unpaid overtime along with my good buddy webman and yes i do understand that teachers do have to meet targets but so do I of which I don't get any M&P to do it though.

    As for the comments of poor teachers yes most do work hard to improve the environment for the kids but they also do it to scale the money tree of which they do at an alarming rate.

    They seem to do this by (taking on more responsibility) he! don't make me laugh, what they take in one hand they pass on to support staff with another plus they get a revised contact timetable to suit depending on their length of time at the school.

    I agree with Simon Graham apart from the last comment "you get out what you put in", well maybe, depending where you are, but i have put in a damn site more than most of the teachers here working back most nights and working w/ends just so the school can have a fast ever running 24/7 365 network and communications system for what ( peanuts) and before any wise ass says that is my own choosing i will reply and say yes it is but i do it because the IT department is sorely underfunded and undermanned unlike some other departments.

    The point i am trying to make is that with the teachers they may have to work hard and take work home but they get the remuneration for it and can drop their workload onto some other TLA or support admin worker or even IT support without even giving it a second thought.

    We all work respectively as part of the team but with teachers i have found that there is no "I" in "TEAM".

    BUMPpppp................Steps down from soapbox have a good day all of you and listen.................."do it to them before they do it to you" (from the good old Hill Street Blues)

  2. #32
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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    Quote Originally Posted by bossman
    The point i am trying to make is that with the teachers they ... get the remuneration for it
    Yes, teaching is well known for being a high salary career... ?!?!

  3. #33

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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones
    Yes, teaching is well known for being a high salary career... ?!?!
    Are you being sarcastic or are you agreeing?

  4. #34

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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    Quote Originally Posted by bossman
    We all work respectively as part of the team but with teachers i have found that there is no "I" in "TEAM".
    But there is a ME. Well if you shuffle the letters a bit.

    Sorry, didn't want this to go the teacher bashing route but high salary career.. Comparativly yes. Starting salary just over 20k. Rough guess average our starting salaries? 12-15k?

    There was a big rent/mortgage discussion in the staffroom with numbers of 800, and even 1100 prices being paid. I got asked if I had my own place and all I could turn around and say is "I get your mortgage payment a month. Not gonna happen". Everyone went quiet for a bit and then carried on talking about redoecorating and lawns. Twas nice of them to ask and include me but money problems didn't seem to be a major problem for them.

    Then there is the usual back from summer talks of only being able to manage 2 weeks in spain this year as they had to pop down to Italy for a bit of skiing and it was a chore that the house in France was being redecorated so they had to go elsewhere. OK now these aren't all of them but it is a rough smattering.

    I think I shall have to go to the FFS section as it really is all getting to me at the moment.

  5. #35
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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones
    Yes, teaching is well known for being a high salary career... ?!?!
    Are you being sarcastic or are you agreeing?
    Sarcastic, very sarcastic.

    I'm not disputing that they often earn more than IT support staff (although I'm on more than an NQT), but you cannot really consider them to be well paid, especially in comparison with what other people with their qualifications can earn elsewhere.

  6. #36

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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    NickJones: What qualifications are we taking about here? can you be more specific please?

  7. #37

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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    IT is also known to be a high salary career - but apparently not within education 8)

  8. #38
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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    Quote Originally Posted by bossman
    NickJones: What qualifications are we taking about here? can you be more specific please?
    Um... a degree at 2:1 or higher plus a post-graduate qualification.

  9. #39

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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    So would you define that anyone with as you put it Um a 2.1 or post graduate degree should be on a decent salary within the educational sector?

  10. #40
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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    I'm saying nothing more than observing that someone with a 2.1 and a post-grad qualification (by which I was referring to a PGCE not a second degree) would be earning far more had they opted for a number of careers in industry than they would in teaching.

    We digress from the original topic though...

    When considering our holiday entitlement, we we must also bear in mind that we are here to support the operation of the whole school and not just the teachers. As the admin staff are required to work full-time, surely the IT Support Department must also be available full-time? It is therefore to be expected that many of us only get the industry-standard 4-6 weeks holiday and not the teachers' 13+ weeks.

  11. #41
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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones
    When considering our holiday entitlement, we we must also bear in mind that we are here to support the operation of the whole school and not just the teachers. As the admin staff are required to work full-time, surely the IT Support Department must also be available full-time? It is therefore to be expected that many of us only get the industry-standard 4-6 weeks holiday and not the teachers' 13+ weeks.
    And hence we should get the industry standard, holiday when you want it.

  12. #42
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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    Quote Originally Posted by budgester
    And hence we should get the industry standard, holiday when you want it.
    And in schools where there is more than one support person, I would agree with you, but I can understand why schools with only one techie do not want to risk having a day without support while lessons are happening.

    Even those companies where you can get holiday "whenever you want it" will still refuse your request if there are too many other people in your team out on that day already. One place I used to work, you had to have your summer holiday booked off by the end of January or you wouldn't get it :-(

  13. #43

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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    NickJones:
    So what you are really saying is become a teacher with a 2.1 degree plus PGCE post graduate qualification and you are entitled to 13 + weeks holiday with a very good salary to boot.

    Then if you have a 2.1 degree and industry professional qualifications (post graduate qualifications) i.e MCSE, MCSA,MCP,CCNA (which i have and others) then you will be called support staff and paid peanuts. You will qualify for only 22 days with more after 5 years service. How can this be fair in this day and age.

    P.S NickJones please don't tell me to find another job as i really like what i do but it is the unfairness in the education system which is to blame. How government expect to turn this around is with BSF which will de-skill the NM job within school along with the technicians and put it out to tender to the cheapest bidder.

    My apologies if i seem a little cynical Nick but when you have studied for a long time to gain what you think are the necessary qualifications for your particular field and are then told that you will be eventually replaced by a company that wants to rip everything out that you have striven to achieve and all for the sake of profit (not progress) as we feel we have everything in place for the teachers to provide a good teaching and learning environment according to the various quangos that impart their top level knowledge.

    How will you fair Nick when BSF comes rolling your way or are you already a part of this faction now?

  14. #44
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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    Quote Originally Posted by bossman
    So what you are really saying is become a teacher with a 2.1 degree plus PGCE post graduate qualification and you are entitled to 13 + weeks holiday with a very good salary to boot.
    No, you've totally misunderstood or misread all my posts! I said that the 13+ weeks holiday comes at the price of a 7-day 60-hour working week, for a salary that is most uncompetitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by bossman
    You will qualify for only 22 days with more after 5 years service
    That is a common holiday entitlement outside of education too, remember.

    Quote Originally Posted by bossman
    How will you fair Nick when BSF comes rolling your way
    I work for an independent school, so I intend to let it carry on rolling past me :-)

  15. #45

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    Re: Annual Leave / Holiday Entitlement

    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones
    No, you've totally misunderstood or misread all my posts! I said that the 13+ weeks holiday comes at the price of a 7-day 60-hour working week, for a salary that is most uncompetitive.
    And if that was standard and the hours they are made to do I would agree. But it's not. And most don't. And a huge portion of those that do do it at crunch time (exams, moderation, etc) so that would be for a week or two in the summer.

    Uncompetitative compared to what? Looking around, the average graduate starting salary is between 17k-22k (22k being those that joined Blue Chip companies). Looking at the teacher starting salary it is just above 20k. So looks about average to me.

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