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General Chat Thread, London Riots in General; Originally Posted by Theblacksheep Scotland Yard reporting the man shot (don't know who by) last night has died. RIP. Didn't ...
  1. #106
    Butters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblacksheep View Post
    Scotland Yard reporting the man shot (don't know who by) last night has died. RIP.
    Didn't say whether he was a looter or not.

    If it carries on tonight, expect more deaths as I've seen the shops in the area I work (Islington) already arming themselves in case it spreads towards here.

    The local JD sports has closed its doors and barricaded the windows up and won't be opening all week.

  2. #107

    CPLTD's Avatar
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    Well said MK-2.

    I am not saying lets round them up and shoot them, in fact far from it. However, in a case of serious civil unrest and where the fire brigade are being stopped from putting a blaze out which is endangering British Citizens surely the lads we pay to be abroad and implement democracy would be bettter off protecting and upholding it here.

    In regards to Northern Ireland blacksheep, I was under the impression the army were sent in after the police couldn't carry out their job in containing the situation that had gotten well out of hand. Does it not look pretty similar to you?? All I have seen so far are the emergency services being over stretched and being chased away from serious situations.

    Chris

  3. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesfed View Post
    Not targeting your point directly (bit more general and sweeping but hey!).

    The police are there to protect the people and keep the law and order - they are trained to handle complex situations on the streets of the UK.
    The Army/Military are there to protect the nation from other nations through the deployment of weapons - they are trained to handle complex situations on the streets of other nations. Indeed if you are a detachment of 30 men and you have a large force coming towards you your next move is to lay down as much fire as possible and reach for the RAF to rain down an air strike.

    So although the Army wouldn't go in with weapons they would go in with the wrong training/experience for the situation.

    I'm sure many members of the military would like to help - after all they feel a strong enough link to the country to fight for it but that doesnít mean they signed up to start policing the streets.
    Erm, that is completely incorrect. The army are there to use as desired by the head honcho's. They are trained to dealing with our streets if they so need to. The police do not have the equipment that the army has to handle things like this.

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    CPLTD (9th August 2011)

  5. #109

    nephilim's Avatar
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    Part of military duties involves martial law and policing streets.

    *edit*

    This came as part of my bct and I am sure others can confirm.

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  7. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    Part of military duties involves martial law and policing streets.

    *edit*

    This came as part of my bct and I am sure others can confirm.
    And what has their training been focoused on most recently? Fighting in Afgan - yes indeed to many senses training and policing out there as well however its a whole diffrent world here in the UK.

    To that degree as well who has the better training to police the UK streets? The Police or the Army? as such should we not use the forces that are best suited to the current needs.

  8. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesfed View Post
    And what has their training been focoused on most recently? Fighting in Afgan - yes indeed to many senses training and policing out there as well however its a whole diffrent world here in the UK.

    To that degree as well who has the better training to police the UK streets? The Police or the Army? as such should we not use the forces that are best suited to the current needs.
    The army are trained no differently (at first) to what they were long before the days of afghan and iraq. Basic training is much the same. The army have additional training for the likes of iraq before they go over, but that doesn't mean that can no longer effectively control our own country.

    I've just learned about Server 2008, but I'm still going to have to know how to handle 2003.

    If you can't sort something in your school, what do you do? I expect like many schools you'll escalate it in some way - advice from the LEA, or a 3rd party consultant, but one thing is for sure - you won't just let it be will you? Why can't the police do that too? Everybody needs some form of escalation - when the police don't have the equipment, why should they go and buy it and train in it when we already have a service which can provide that support? Next you'll be wanting the police to put out the fires, because they were caused by criminals.
    Last edited by Hightower; 9th August 2011 at 01:19 PM.

  9. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hightower View Post
    The army are trained no differently (at first) to what they were long before the days of afghan and iraq. Basic training is much the same. The army have additional training for the likes of iraq before they go over, but that doesn't mean that can no longer effectively control our own country.

    I've just learned about Server 2008, but I'm still going to have to know how to handle 2003.
    I'm looking wayy beyond basic here and more at pre deployment training.
    The basics may be there but not recently practiced (or put into practice for those who have come back from deployment) in the right context.

  10. #113

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    Social networking being put to good use. I wonder if the media will report this...

    Catch A Looter

  11. #114
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    Further to that and using your 2003 and 2008 part - I know precisely where many settings are in 2008 and this can translate back fine to 2003 (which indeed I have used as well) however because I'm used to using 2008 it might take a second or two longer for me to figure out just where that setting is.

    In a IT situation that’s no biggy - however put that in a fast moving riot....that one or two second longer of thought/action could mean a big difference between putting someone down hard on the ground and restraining them and putting someone hard down on the ground and cracking their skull.

  12. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by CPLTD View Post
    In regards to Northern Ireland blacksheep, I was under the impression the army were sent in after the police couldn't carry out their job in containing the situation that had gotten well out of hand. Does it not look pretty similar to you??
    It does look similar. My point being, how well was that chaotic situation in a British City handled by the army?

  13. #116

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    From Twitter

    lots of tweets about this

    ALERT: gangs forming in london fields right now and en route to hackney town hall. Stay Away! #Hackney

  14. #117
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    I just can't believe people are advocating a "shoot to kill" policy. These are 14-20 year olds, do you really think that the sight of a dead 14 year old girl broadcasted around the world is a good thing? You can argue all you want about how this started, whether they are just "mindless thugs" (which just seems to be a nice way dehumanising these people), and whether the government is to be blamed, but to say we should just kill them strikes me as appalling.

    Yes, it should stop. Yes the police could be using more force, and definitely need more numbers and reassert their authority, but how could you trust them again if they just opened fire into a crowd, killing indiscrimanently.

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    Theblacksheep (9th August 2011)

  16. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by simpsonj View Post
    whether they are just "mindless thugs" (which just seems to be a nice way dehumanising these people)
    I agree with your other comments but this is ridiculous - how else do you describe these people!? They are mindless thugs, no question about it.

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  18. #119

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    Last edited by JJonas; 9th August 2011 at 01:36 PM.

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    Surely the army are trained to deal with civil unrest? I see the adverts enough and its not just about guns blazing but also "Peace Keeping", sorting out evacuating Civi's and tons more - seen the adverts over the years? I could write a long list of what they deal with. They deal with possible hostile situations all the time? which pretty much is what's happening over here. We need to stop pampering the thugs and deal with them in a way they actually understand - A club over the head or a gun in their face. Sorry to sound a bit OTT but when criminals (Yes they are Criminals for what they are doing) cause things like this then we should be showing them the full force of the police/army if we have to and stop sugar coating the yobs. Kind of moments like this I have zero sympathy for gang members who do get shot.

    Reading the sun there is a video of a woman shouting saying she is disgusted at them and ashamed to be from Hackney and what not. More and more people will end up dead and not the yobs but the innocent people who decide to defend their business's and homes/belongings and the yobs deserve NO human rights. Moments like this I think the cops should be armed with guns just like the yanks.

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