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General Chat Thread, London Riots in General; There was some excellent community based reporting from Sangat TV (Sky 847) in Birmingham last night....
  1. #226

    JJonas's Avatar
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    There was some excellent community based reporting from Sangat TV (Sky 847) in Birmingham last night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    I have always had the same viewpoint on this - kids should be disciplined properly (a good clip round the ear or smacked backside). Naughty steps and "time out" are complete and utter rubbish. Coppers should be able to clip them round the ear again - same old argument we've had before. Reasonable force. All this rioting rubbish comes from kids who have absolutely no sense of right or wrong and have little to no proper discipline.
    I have a different viewpoint. Many of the children I knew in school were disciplined with unthinking brute force of varying degrees, and none of those who were have grown up particularly successful or moral. I wasn't disciplined that way, and I'd like to think I'm not a bad person (I'm not out rioting anyway). Simply spouting that a clip round the ear or a whack with a cane would solve the problem is unthinking and ignorant.

    I had one incident where a teacher did whack me over the hand with a ruler in class, for something I hadn't done. I promptly devoted the next few hours working out a revenge of some sort. Fortunately my parents calmed me down from my rage when I got home and talked me out of arson - instead they made a complaint to the school and the teacher was quietly dismissed.

    Peer pressure though is something else entirely and quite unavoidable - it can only be overridden by each individuals willpower and sense of right/wrong.
    I never really suffered from it that much - possibly because my parents always reasoned with me as much as possible rather than trying to simply force me to do things 'cos it's right innit' without giving a reason. Teaching someone to think about consequences is infinitely more valuable than bullying them into unthinking obedience.

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    simpsonj (10th August 2011)

  4. #228
    NikChillin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    NikChillin - Kids don't pop out as 100lb 6 foot masked gits. The point about parenting is to start showing discipline from the off. How you handle them from early infancy onwards makes a hell of a difference when they're 16.

    I have always had the same viewpoint on this - kids should be disciplined properly (a good clip round the ear or smacked backside). Naughty steps and "time out" are complete and utter rubbish. Coppers should be able to clip them round the ear again - same old argument we've had before. Reasonable force. All this rioting rubbish comes from kids who have absolutely no sense of right or wrong and have little to no proper discipline.

    Peer pressure though is something else entirely and quite unavoidable - it can only be overridden by each individuals willpower and sense of right/wrong.
    No they don't, he was fine until he hit 15, started drinking and smoking dope, by then he was that big! Once they hit skid row it is hard to get them back - sadly.

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    There is this from the BBC's website that about half way down (near the radio link) contains a well thought out sensible response from a principled rioter.

  6. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart_C View Post
    There is this from the BBC's website that about half way down (near the radio link) contains a well thought out sensible response from a principled rioter.
    When the BBC asked two youths why they were rioting, one responded: "Right, why are you going to miss the opportunity to get free stuff that's worth, like, loads of money?"

    But they said it was not just about that, adding it was in response to government cuts.

    One added: "How many people have they arrested really, though, 10? I'm not really bothered. I'll keep doing this every day until I get caught."

    He said he might be shouted at or grounded when he returned home but he would "live with that".

    He added that it would be his first offence "so I'm not really bothered".
    Way to go parenting.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    adding it was in response to government cuts
    ah yes, because causing millions of pounds of damage and raising insurance premiums for many shops/homes/cars will make the government stop the cuts, and instead give everyone a free playstation

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJonas View Post
    I think some military discipline would do them good, teach them some respect, failing that community service then. Do two years of education or national/community service when you leave school to qualify for benefits.
    Some of them might even enjoy it.
    yeah two years in afghanistan or iraq would do good for them (with no gun)... i cant even watch it i hope all this will end soon.. and all prosecuted should rebuild everything they have destroyed obviously for free...

  9. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by NikChillin View Post
    It isn't that easy, if your son is twice your size and aggressive, how are you supposed to keep him in? I know someone who brought their son up properly but he has gone right off the rails, got in with the wrong crowd. They just feel helpless now.
    I'm bigger than both my parents, both in height and weight. But I would never have thought of acting up against them. When I was bad as a kid, I got a smack on the rear, grounded/sent to my room etc... The problem with the current lack of smacking etc... is that it teaches the kids that the worst punishment they'll get is basically someone talking at them...

    Real punishments engender real understanding of consequences.

    Our criminal justice system is as bad as the new methods of parenting too, basically most criminals get a slap on the wrist. There's no real consequences.

    Now, I don't condone the level of barbarity that exists in places like Thailand or Saudi Arabia, but there if you are caught stealing, you can be damn sure you'll be getting significant punishment. What we need to see is people not wanting to commit crimes, based on the fear that they WILL get caught and WILL be punished.

  10. Thanks to localzuk from:

    MK-2 (10th August 2011)

  11. #234

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    Sky News now reporting - Boris has asked Government to reconsider police cuts

    also PM to make statement at 11:00
    Last edited by JJonas; 10th August 2011 at 10:31 AM.

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    SHOP A MORON | The Sun |News


    -edit-

    inb4 you are a moron for reading The Sun

  13. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    What we need to see is people not wanting to commit crimes, based on the fear that they WILL get caught and WILL be punished.
    this right here sums it all up

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    When the BBC asked two youths why they were rioting, one responded: "Right, why are you going to miss the opportunity to get free stuff that's worth, like, loads of money?"

    But they said it was not just about that, adding it was in response to government cuts.
    Pre-emptive Disclaimer: Because the Wife made be watch it!!!

    I am strangely reminded of the film "Miss Congeniality" here. The part where she is being interviewed by the host of the beauty pagent and when asked "what does she want most in the world" replies saying she wants a robust and firm policing strategy (or something) and when the audience and host look blankly at her tags "And World Peace" on the end as the stock response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I'm bigger than both my parents, both in height and weight. But I would never have thought of acting up against them. When I was bad as a kid, I got a smack on the rear, grounded/sent to my room etc... The problem with the current lack of smacking etc... is that it teaches the kids that the worst punishment they'll get is basically someone talking at them...
    He was chastised as a child but when they get into drink and drugs their personality changes and it doesn't help when they are in a crowd that thinks it's big to act like idiots.
    It is hard to reason with someone who is continually spaced out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Now, I don't condone the level of barbarity that exists in places like Thailand or Saudi Arabia, but there if you are caught stealing, you can be damn sure you'll be getting significant punishment. What we need to see is people not wanting to commit crimes, based on the fear that they WILL get caught and WILL be punished.
    What we need is people not wanting to commit crimes, because they're decent people. With a level of reasonable intelligence it wouldn't be hard to engineer a crime such that you wouldn't be caught and if your only deterrent is fear of punishment then you're setting up for some big problems. Is the only reason that you don't commit crimes because you might be caught and punished?

  17. #240

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    Quote Originally Posted by NikChillin View Post
    He was chastised as a child but when they get into drink and drugs their personality changes and it doesn't help when they are in a crowd that thinks it's big to act like idiots.
    It is hard to reason with someone who is continually spaced out.
    Why did he 'get into drink and drugs' though?

    Sure, every teen drinks, I drank at 15, but I also stayed sane. Many teens start smoking weed around that age too, but they don't all go nuts. I grew up on the Isle of Man, an area where teenage alcoholism is something like highest or second highest in the world, along with teenage marijuana use, but i'd be hard pushed to find someone who went completely off the rails like that.

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