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General Chat Thread, BT ordered to block pirate links in General; Just wish the MPA would realise there business model is dead in the water and move to a model that ...
  1. #16
    penfold_99's Avatar
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    Just wish the MPA would realise there business model is dead in the water and move to a model that does't people off. The music industry has moved. Piracy would reduce if films could be purchased for under 5 instead of 20+.
    I have BT Vision and the pay per view had gone up from 2.99 to 4.00 for SD, 5.00 for HD and 6.00. this pricing is getting to near the supermarket discount price point to purcase it.

    Services like hulu are the way forward, if MPA continue as they are piracy will just keep rising. oh at get the studios to make other things apart from sequels as it the first one is rubbish its not going to get better with a second one.

  2. #17
    tommej's Avatar
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    When will these companies realise their way of doing things is outdated and not what consumers want.

    When people can stream or download a movie in a format they want, when they want, and can keep it for as long as they want there might be a reduction in piracy.

    Things like netflix in the US are a decent example. Shame lovefilm in the Uk is awful.

    Piracy is always going to happen, they should perhaps be looking at why the average joe is pirating movies instead of trying to lock him up.

  3. #18

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    I dont think the cinema price is particularly bad for entrance. However cinema's recently are shoddy. Noone there these days to control the yobs/morons, snack/drinks prices are - well, go thirsty unless you fancy remortgaging and the general experience is not that good any more.
    Realistically, release films tend to hit 12/13 quid on DVD which I'm happy to pay for - it's not an unreasonable price. But having paid that, I don't want to put it in the player and sit through 15 minutes of "You might also want to watch..." "Disney also do..." "DON'T PIRATE!!" "REALLY, PLEASE DON'T PIRATE THIS DISC!" "Yes, I know if you're pirated this disc you've taken this stupid warning off, so this warning is 100% pointless". It's the equivalent of making the word "Mars" smaller on a sweet packet so you can fit on PLEASE DO NOT STEAL THIS PRODUCT.

    The *ENTIRE SYSTEM* is outdated and ridiculous, and the RIAA/MPAA/Whoever need to wake up and actually ask what people want.

    There's a few ideas - one of my own would be the option to pay another fiver at the end of a film if you enjoy it to get a coupon which allows you to download it via whatever possible means, legally, at release time.
    Without all the crud.

    In essence, they're repeatedly trying to slam the door yet they know full well the horse has long bolted. Not only has the horse bolted, but it's watching them slam the door, laughing at them. And rightly so.

    Something has to give for them to notice, and I hope it happens soon. I'm not saying they deserve to have their products stolen; I'm saying they deserve to be slapped around the face until they have a clue and get with the times.

  4. Thanks to synaesthesia from:

    Martin (28th July 2011)

  5. #19

    localzuk's Avatar
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    As others have said - producers are missing the point of what people want.

    If movies were easy to access (and not hindered by ridiculous DRM schemes as most services are now), reasonably priced, not full of nonsense 'DON'T PIRATE' adverts, and were worth their price then people would pay for them.

    I regularly buy games on Steam and EA Origin - I've not bought a 'boxed' PC game for at least 5 years. I like the convenience of clicking 'buy' and it downloading in the next few hours. The only problem with these services is the pricing for newer games - 40 for a game is ridiculous. Much like the cost of cinema tickets are far too high, and dvd rentals (and as penfold_99 says, BT Vision rentals) are too high also. Just look at the profits the producers make - they are obviously charging too much if they are making so much profit, yet there is rife piracy.

    I pay 9.99 a month for Spotify and I think that it is a brilliant system. Unlimited music, on computer, phone, ipod etc... wherever I am for a simple monthly fee. If movie producers could copy that business model to their products, and charged a decent price (I dunno, 25 a month seems like a reasonable price for unlimited movie viewings), they'd get themselves a solid continual income. I pay for the BT Vision film club because it provides me a list of movies I can watch 'free' each month, and the TV pack, as it provides me with a list of tv shows. The pricing for these is excellent - I just wish it was extended further.

    Piracy shouldn't be seen as a 'threat', it should be seen as a flaw in their business model that needs fixing.

  6. 2 Thanks to localzuk:

    synaesthesia (28th July 2011), ZeroHour (8th August 2011)

  7. #20

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Piracy shouldn't be seen as a 'threat', it should be seen as a flaw in their business model that needs fixing.
    I will use this in future Great line that sums it all up nicely.

  8. #21
    Jamman960's Avatar
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    Not sure why they're targeting usenet... I would have thought torrents would be an easier target

    Surely the usenet crowd could also be a good target for subscription services etc as most people making use of it will be paying for premium server access due to most ISP servers being about as much use as a chocolate tea pot(very few binary groups and retention measured in hours rather than days/years)

  9. #22

    jinnantonnixx's Avatar
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    The film and music industry itself doesn't appear to be a shining beacon of morality.

    Two from TechDirt
    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...10310122.shtml
    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...82610186.shtml

    Sad reading for artists and those too naive to understand slippery contracts.


    Hollywood accounting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by jinnantonnixx; 28th July 2011 at 05:15 PM.

  10. Thanks to jinnantonnixx from:

    hicksonj (29th July 2011)

  11. #23

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamman960 View Post
    Not sure why they're targeting usenet... I would have thought torrents would be an easier target

    Surely the usenet crowd could also be a good target for subscription services etc as most people making use of it will be paying for premium server access due to most ISP servers being about as much use as a chocolate tea pot(very few binary groups and retention measured in hours rather than days/years)
    How would they target torrents? They are inherently difficult to block due to their P2P nature. Add in the various distributed tracker technologies that exist too, and blocking that would be like trying to block a river with pebbles. Blocking websites is easy - we do it every day within our schools. Sure there are ways around most blocking systems, but for the majority it serves as a preventative measure.

  12. #24

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinnantonnixx View Post
    The film and music industry itself doesn't appear to be a shining beacon of morality.

    Two from TechDirt
    'Hollywood Accounting' Losing In The Courts | Techdirt
    RIAA Accounting: Why Even Major Label Musicians Rarely Make Money From Album Sales | Techdirt

    Sad reading for artists and those too naive to understand slippery contracts.


    Hollywood accounting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Yup, its sickening. Its also one of the reasons why Trent Reznor no longer works with a label - when he released Ghosts I - IV, I happily paid for it, rather than downloaded it free. I knew that the money was actually going to the talent, not suits sitting in offices somewhere thinking of ways to rip off the little people even more. Record labels and movie studios are con artists, who cash in on the talents of others blinded by the promise of riches.

    The only way musicians make real money today is by performing live.

  13. #25


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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    It won't make a jot of difference, it's a tiny part of the whole piracy problem.

    IMO they shouldn't be going round blocking access to these sort of sites, they should sort out the biggest problems - cinema costs and inconveniences, release DVD's being more full of rubbish than the film itself, most of which you can't skip and they might actually make an impact.

    Besides which, studies have long been done which show very clearly that the film industries biggest customer (paid) are indeed "pirates". I wonder when the court will overrule the MPAA's moronic attempts at blocking those studies from being properly published.

    (I do not condone piracy in any way shape or form. )
    cinema costs are silly 8ish to watch a film that will be on dvd in 6 months for 12-15 why would you bother?

    I really do object to those you wouldnt nick a car etc "adverts" unskippable at the start of the dvd the fact im watching it pretty much tells you ive bought it as any pirate version would cut that right out. I dont mind trailers etc on diskc but ffs put them on the disks menu so i can watch them if i want rather than being forced to watch them (and 2 years later i probably have all teh ones i want anyway)

    Quote Originally Posted by arwen View Post
    Oh this reminded me of another point! If dvd's came with a 'digital' copy, without costing an extra tenner then I would be more inclined to buy them. One of the benifits of downloading is not having a bookcase full of dvds, and the abliitly to play then on a range of devices.
    (I know you technically could buy the dvd then rip it, but thats illegal aswell still is it not? so whats the point...)
    I have a few bluerays with digital copies you need to install software to play them as they have the dreaded drm and why would i buy a hd version of the film but want an sd download version? (ok as an option but not as the only download)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatt View Post
    I have to agree here.. the cost of buying either a DVD or an Album is ridiculous compaired to how much it costs to mass produce them.
    I recall when a "Single" came on Cassettes, where there were only 2 songs an A side and a B Side and came in either a plastic case that soon ended up as a makeshift ice scraper for the car, or a cardboard sleave... And they cost less than 1!
    Then the CD's came out and there were about 5 songs on it and the price rocketed to about 2-3 quid (which used to be the cost of an Album on Cassette tape!) and albums hit the 10 quid mark...

    DVD prices are horrendously overpriced - they get made for about a few quid, and then sold at about 20 a pop!

    And lets not mention computer games! (50!?! - Hell a decent Speccy game used to be about 1.50!)

    /rant
    id argue that say jet set willy cost much less to program etc than call of duty/forza etc (though granted offset a bit by sales numbers) but still speccy games vs/console is a bit of am unfair comparison

  14. #26

    Gatt's Avatar
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    OK PC games (Pre PS1/XBOX so talking about win98 & first few years of XP here) avg 10-15 with many under 15
    Now, PC games are up in the 30 (if you can find them crammed into a corner somewhere in amongst the PS/XBox/Wii games!))

    A Game for the PS3 or Xbox costs anywhere from 40-50, yet the same game for the Wii or PC is about 20-30 - How does that work?

    This affects more than just one industry, and Games are freely copied, Consoles chipped, NOCD cracks for the PC

    Trainers - walk into "Wyndsors" and you can get a damned good pair for 10-20 - walk over the the "Nike" / "Addidas" / etc racks and its anywhere from 50 to 100+!!
    Essentially you are paying for a name! And I have found that the pair from wyndsors lasts longer than the brand names!

    The rest is down to Rip-Off Britain....

  15. #27
    simpsonj's Avatar
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    But games have never been cheap. SNES games used to sell for 30-40...

    Wii games are usually cheaper because of the limited nature of the console, the same game on the Wii and 360 will look awful on the Wii, which also won't be able to have DLC or have Xbox Live to back it up. Most PC games tend to be cheaper (though I have noticed a subtle raising in prices, mainly by EA) because the PC systems tend to be so much more expensive, and more often than not you're paying to mass beta test the product before the first patch comes out... Another strong reason for pirating I guess. But I've never known new PC games to be under the 25 mark the past 10 years.

    Mind you, if you think Britain is bad for games, try being Australian! Getting expensive to be a gamer over there so I understand.

    Really liked the coupon idea though, using the cinema experience as a direct sale for the Blu-Ray/Movie/Download sounds like a very good idea.

  16. #28

    Michael's Avatar
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    It's quite simple really why music, games and movies are pirated and it all comes down to price. The price to go to the cinema is expensive (when you include a drink and some popcorn, although I could live without these ) and the price of a new Blu-ray is 15-20. It just isn't realistic.

    Clearly the people in the movie business do not understand how the internet or torrents work and whoever is consulting them should be binned immediately. I heard on the radio the other day that the merchandise from the film 'Cars' has generated over $5 billion US, so in theory they could of made the film at the cinema and the DVDs free, as it obviously didn't cost $5 billion US to make the film Cars.

    Admittedly not every film created is a cash cow for merchandise, but realistically the only way forward is to seriously reduce prices. It's better to sell more at a lower price, rather than fewer at a higher price. You'll always make more money the first way.

    By the time the movie industry takes every ISP to court (in the world) and allocates a ridiculous budget to try and 'combat' piracy; this is why they're losing money. Then these websites will register a new web address and create clones or mirrors of other torrent sites. Will they take all the ISPs to court again? Who knows, but I wish them luck as they're going to lose longterm.

  17. #29


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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    By the time the movie industry takes every ISP to court (in the world) and allocates a ridiculous budget to try and 'combat' piracy; this is why they're losing money. Then these websites will register a new web address and create clones or mirrors of other torrent sites. Will they take all the ISPs to court again? Who knows, but I wish them luck as they're going to lose longterm.
    not to mention so much ill will people wont wont to buy from them

  18. #30

    Michael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    not to mention so much ill will people wont wont to buy from them
    Well yes there is that, plus people are not daft. Everyone in their mind have a monetary worth or value for 'items' in life they wish to buy, from large purchases such as houses or cars to smaller purchases such as DVDs. 20 is too much for a single film (in my opinion) and this is why piracy is rocketing.

    I'm not entirely sure why just the one torrent site is being targeted as there are thousands of torrent sites out there. It just isn't logical thinking, unless they're that naive the world piracy HQ is all being done from one website. I really hope someone one day from the movie industry wakes up and reads these forums!

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