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General Chat Thread, Ignorant and the pension thingy...me in General; Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster Average public sector pay is now 10% higher than average private sector pay. Bonuses are unheard ...
  1. #16

    TechMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster View Post
    Average public sector pay is now 10% higher than average private sector pay. Bonuses are unheard of for 95% of the private sector.

    You may not want to rush to 'fall in to line' with the private sector.
    Is this from the study a few months ago? If so I call rubbish. There was a thread on here and it was picked apart quite easily and I think found to have been carried out by an unbiased think tank. No surprise it came out just before the strikes were being talked about. I don't want to fall in line with the private sector but the government seem to want to drive us there. Also where did you get that 95% for no bonuses?

    Rough arguments are how do you compare public sector and private sector jobs? Straw poll of adverts for Private sector jobs and public sector showed disparity. The poll is skewed as low paid jobs are being contracted out while managerial jobs (in councils) push the average up. etc etc.

    As I mentioned earlier, the pension for public sector has historically been good as that was the only way to get people in as the pay has been poor. It generally went, poor pay, job security benefits when you retire. Seems to be now poor pay, no future, shafted when you get old.

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    steve's Avatar
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    The current government are looking to change the pension scheme in 4 ways:

    Change of interest calculation - RPI to CPI
    Increase in retirement age - from 65 to state retirement age
    Increase in contribution - typically from 6% to 9% (varies according to salary)
    Change from final salary to career average

    Anyone of the above would raise cause for concern but to do all 4 is way over the top.

    The local government scheme is classed as a fully funded scheme - the money we and our employers pay in is invested. The amount of money currently in the scheme is sufficient to pay those retiring.
    It is expected that any reduction in benefits to the local government scheme will result in the government taking money away from the local authorities / academies.
    e.g. If you currently pay 100 per month and your employer 200 per month, that's 300 going into the fund to be invested.

    Under the proposed rules you'd pay in 150. Now with the reduced benefits, your employer may only need to contribute perhaps 140.
    This means a saving of 60 per month. But your employer wouldn't see this - the government would give them less money as a result.

    The local government scheme is very different to the government schemes, for example the civil servants scheme which has no fund associated to it. All there contributions ha gone back to the government who have never invested the money. This is why other government pension schemes are in a mess.

    I'm willing to have the scheme I'm in reviewed, and pay a bit more and even get a bit less. However I want the MPs to have the same scheme as me. Notice in this whole debate, the MPs are being very quiet about what they are getting - BTW they set there own.

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    AyatollahPies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechMonkey View Post
    Is this from the study a few months ago? If so I call rubbish. There was a thread on here and it was picked apart quite easily and I think found to have been carried out by an unbiased think tank. No surprise it came out just before the strikes were being talked about. I don't want to fall in line with the private sector but the government seem to want to drive us there. Also where did you get that 95% for no bonuses?

    Rough arguments are how do you compare public sector and private sector jobs? Straw poll of adverts for Private sector jobs and public sector showed disparity. The poll is skewed as low paid jobs are being contracted out while managerial jobs (in councils) push the average up. etc etc.

    As I mentioned earlier, the pension for public sector has historically been good as that was the only way to get people in as the pay has been poor. It generally went, poor pay, job security benefits when you retire. Seems to be now poor pay, no future, shafted when you get old.
    National Statistics Online - Public & private sector earnings

    Not really an unbiased think tank.

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    TechMonkey (13th July 2011)

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    Quote Originally Posted by AyatollahPies View Post
    Ta for that, the articles I had seen thrown around weren't using that data. Just watched the video and they admit that you can't really compare the 2 sectors so they take a stab at it. As well as some sectors being left out and bonuses not being included. Still stinks of lies, damned lies and statistics to me.

    I agree with steve though. I will be more than happy to accept any pension that the MP's accept. As long as any payment for speaking engagements or companies they sign up with after being MPs gets deducted or taken into consideration for a deduction.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatpackhamster View Post
    Average public sector pay is now 10% higher than average private sector pay. Bonuses are unheard of for 95% of the private sector.

    You may not want to rush to 'fall in to line' with the private sector.
    What's that saying? There are lies, damned lies, and statistics?

    Whilst technically true, the above statement is contextually flawed. The public sector has been farming off its lower paid jobs to the private sector now for a good decade or more (how many councils employ their own bin men now? Or their own cleaners? Canteen staff?). Meaning the average pay in the public sector is higher. However, if you look at the distribution of people earning at different levels, it is not true.

    Many need to stop thinking 'ooh, the public sector has got it good, they need to realise how good they have it' and actually start thinking 'the private sector has been royally screwed by their employers, who have ruined their pension schemes, we need to improve that'.

    Why drag everyone down to the lowest common denominator? Why not drag those at the lowest level UP?

    However, in this discussion of pensions, I do think something has to give now. Final salary pensions scream 'unfair' to me. Lifetime average is much more fair and justifiable.

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    AyatollahPies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    What's that saying? There are lies, damned lies, and statistics?

    Whilst technically true, the above statement is contextually flawed. The public sector has been farming off its lower paid jobs to the private sector now for a good decade or more (how many councils employ their own bin men now? Or their own cleaners? Canteen staff?). Meaning the average pay in the public sector is higher. However, if you look at the distribution of people earning at different levels, it is not true.

    Many need to stop thinking 'ooh, the public sector has got it good, they need to realise how good they have it' and actually start thinking 'the private sector has been royally screwed by their employers, who have ruined their pension schemes, we need to improve that'.

    Why drag everyone down to the lowest common denominator? Why not drag those at the lowest level UP?

    However, in this discussion of pensions, I do think something has to give now. Final salary pensions scream 'unfair' to me. Lifetime average is much more fair and justifiable.
    I agree. There are vested interests in keeping public sector and private sector workers divided.

    It's a race to the bottom.

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