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General Chat Thread, Experience with RFID anybody? in General; Originally Posted by Ben_Stanton we purely want to be able to tell the fire brigade with a high level of ...
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    Re: Experience with RFID anybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben_Stanton
    we purely want to be able to tell the fire brigade with a high level of probablility that yes there are people in that burning building or no there are not.
    Very true, and that is the key point to your idea of having the sensors on the gates and not more localised - you can't identify that people are showing up late for class or what have you, nor can you see that two staff members have sloped off to a "quiet corner" somewhere together. This is why your idea just might work where others have met with civil liberties arguments.

    It is funny - some people will object regardless of how sensible it ultimately is. I fully agree with your sentiments however the media at present has us all hyped up on this issue at the moment, so you must expect some backlash against even the most sensible of ideas.

    There are still practical considerations, even if you do get the go ahead. How will you get this data when the fire bells ring? Whose job is it to remain in the burning building while the PC runs the report and then prints out the data?

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    Re: Experience with RFID anybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben_Stanton
    TO REITERATE, THIS WOULD ONLY BE USED TO MONITOR WHO IS ON SITE IN THE EVENT OF A FIRE
    That's as may be, the fact of the matter is that you could do more with the information. Look at the vast majority of civil liberties / personal privacy objections - they are not about the act itself but what else could be done with that data if you so desired (not that you would, of course!).
    I understand completely with what you are saying, but we aren't tesco or walmart! The fob will have a 3 digit number. The DB will have the initials of the member of staff that corresponds to that number. The DB will only have an IN and OUT date/time stamp. What can we, or anybody else do with a bunch of fobs that have only the original (manufacturer encoded) identifier and a DB with a load of initials and times?

    Unless of course WH Smith managed to get this database and correlate the seemingly random information and open a stationary only store at the end of the mile long driveway in our secluded hamlet of only 100 residents (we don't have street lights let alone a shop)!

    I agree this technology could be used for ill gain - but so could the school database with a shed load more information, or maybe the payroll system - I don't remember any uproar when these details were being entered?!?!?!?!?!?

    I didn't want to cause an argument here, I just wanted to see if anybody had any experience in this area - as that is why we are all members surely!

    I am not stupid, I do know that this concept is in widespread use around the world for targeted marketing, people and asset monitoring. We are not talking about an identity card that is picked up by hidden recievers monitoring your every step (big brother styleeeee) and every purchase. Who you are in close proximity too etc etc. THERE IS NO GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY HERE!

    Unbelievable. People quite happily throw away documents that contain much more information (that people actually do wade through the bins for). People still sign up to things knowing full well their information will spread around the world like wildfire to various advertising comapnies, government agencies etc. People still keep information in their walllets that get lost, still have 'home' plumbed into their satnav, their car keys and home keys on the same chain, home windows open yet people will openly go aginst a simple, basic, yet effective system to ensure that they are not inside a burning 3 storey grade2 listed building!

    PLEASE NO MORE COMMENTS ON 'INVASION OF PRIVACY'

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    Re: Experience with RFID anybody?

    Having a system which does not keep record but simply gives real-time data could also help to alleviate concerns.

    Whatever you do, you need a system which is fool-proof otherwise your data could be misleading. Consider the teacher who, for whatever reason, doesn't swipe in; as they are not logged as being on site, you don't tell the fire crews to go looking for them. If you have a system which logs people but can be circumvented (accidentally/carelessly I mean, not deliberately) you could end up having a false sense of security regarding the accuracy of said data. That was the decision here - no data is better than incorrect data. I would therefore look for a system which works without any requirement on the staff members, so proximity sensors on the gates rather than swipe card units would be my preference.

    Of course, you'll still get the people who leave their cards in school overnight, so are reported as being on site when they're not, meaning the fire crews will go looking for someone who is in fact safely at home 20 miles away.

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    Re: Experience with RFID anybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben_Stanton
    we purely want to be able to tell the fire brigade with a high level of probablility that yes there are people in that burning building or no there are not.
    Very true, and that is the key point to your idea of having the sensors on the gates and not more localised - you can't identify that people are showing up late for class or what have you, nor can you see that two staff members have sloped off to a "quiet corner" somewhere together. This is why your idea just might work where others have met with civil liberties arguments.

    It is funny - some people will object regardless of how sensible it ultimately is. I fully agree with your sentiments however the media at present has us all hyped up on this issue at the moment, so you must expect some backlash against even the most sensible of ideas.

    There are still practical considerations, even if you do get the go ahead. How will you get this data when the fire bells ring? Whose job is it to remain in the burning building while the PC runs the report and then prints out the data?
    Central database, access by bursar, secretary, Head, Estates, SMT - a icon in system tray that when clicked will print list to nearest printer. These offices are spread across campus in 3 seperate buildings. It would need to be one hell of a fire to make this a problem.

    There are obvious flaws in this, yes, you could slope off round the bike sheds for a crafty whatever, but you have not passed the exit sensor so we will act as if you "could possibly" be in the building.

    You may forget to swipe in way out or maybe walk off site, again, we will act based on the assumption you could possibly still be in the building. Surely it is better to have possibilities than no he isnt there - oh hang on, there he is waving from the 3rd floor smoke filled room!

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    Re: Experience with RFID anybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben_Stanton
    we purely want to be able to tell the fire brigade with a high level of probablility that yes there are people in that burning building or no there are not. 'The information' (which would be their name) is not a secret is it? What your saying is a member of staff is going to object to his employer knowing he is at work?!?
    Are you sure that the fire brigade will be interested? I had a passing conversation with our safety officer recently where he told me something like the fire brigade will not enter a building which still has people in it!

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    Re: Experience with RFID anybody?

    My understanding, chinease whispers from the Bursar via the Estates Manager - the fire brigade want to know if the buillding has been entirely vacated so that they can just drench the bugger. Or, if there are people in there - appropriate steps need to be taken.

    Surely they don't turn up, ask if it is empty, we say no and they just shrug and say oh well....?

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    Re: Experience with RFID anybody?

    Regarding the fire brigade... we were told (by the fire brigade) that they will search ALL rooms in the event of a fire anyway. Our only concern is to get as many people out as possible.

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    Re: Experience with RFID anybody?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ric_
    Regarding the fire brigade... we were told (by the fire brigade) that they will search ALL rooms in the event of a fire anyway. Our only concern is to get as many people out as possible.
    They probably do search all rooms regardless, but if you know that the teacher in Room 1 is still unaccounted for, then surely you start there rather than Room 7 (as much as is possible, of course).

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    Re: Experience with RFID anybody?

    Usual procedure is to identify risk areas and at risk personell.

    Part of this includes asking if people are still in the building before starting searches.

    The presumption in public buildings is that it is still occupied unless otherwise confirmed, and even they they don't trust you.

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