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General Chat Thread, Industrial Action - One Rule for One? in General; Our ssp forms ask for how many days you were off ill, including non-working days. According to our data manager ...
  1. #16

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    Our ssp forms ask for how many days you were off ill, including non-working days. According to our data manager all teaching staff are also meant to report if they are ill in the holidays and fill in an ssp (its never happened yet tho).

  2. #17
    CAM
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    What is reporting illness on your days off meant to accomplish? I'd query that.

  3. #18

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    I think it is because teachers are actually paid all year round(thus the 365) and support are not paid in the holidays or weekends (sometimes if you are term time your annual pay is divided by 12 to give you a salary every month).
    The notion that teachers are paid for the weekends is an interesting one!

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    I think it is because teachers are actually paid all year round...
    Some of us Network Managers/Technicians are also paid all year round. However we do not get the same treatment.

  5. #20

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    That's my point though - you are paid for 5 day weeks and they appear to be paid for 7!

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    Teacher is contractually obliged to work extra hours[1], albeit as they see fit, beyond their "in school teaching" quota. AIUI somehow, the open-ended whatever-it-(reasonably)-takes got them the 1/365th.

    That many of us work extra hours to discharge what we feel are our professional duties is irrelevant, our employees can't do diddly to make us do that via our 9-5 contracts. That some Teachers don't obviously spend many extra hours, that some have been known to get TAs to relieve some of the extra hours workload that is supposed to be theirs alone, that you (or at least I) don't often hear of an useless idle one being hauled up for not doing enough homework... is perhaps another thread.

    [1] a teacher must work
    such reasonable additional hours as may be necessary to enable the
    effective discharge of the teacher’s professional duties, including, in
    particular planning and preparing courses and lessons; and assessing,
    monitoring, recording and reporting on the learning needs, progress
    and achievements of assigned pupils.
    Last edited by PiqueABoo; 24th June 2011 at 09:31 PM.

  7. #22

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    I'd say the same applied for support staff too personally. Therefore I'd say it's not fair - perhaps you should go on stri.. oh, yeah, hang on a minute.

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    Teachers are contracted for the whole year and are expected to work during that year for 195 of directed time, of which 190 days will be teaching children and other duties and 5 days will be just other duties. This also comes under the 1265 hours of directed work during that period.

    Teachers are also expected to work “such reasonable additional hours as may be needed to enable the effective discharge of their professional duties” ... including planning and preparation, marking, recording and reporting ... and where / when this happens is at the discretion of the teacher ... but making sure there is work / life balance.

    Basically ... the Head can direct their time for a number of things including staying late for parents' evening, Saturday sports fixtures, etc ... but it comes at the cost of because they can theoretically work 365 days a year then they have to have the right to be paid for 365 days (or those out of those 365 they do 'work' in). There are similar comparisons with Police and 'training shifts', the Army and leave entitlement, and a number of others (NASUWT did a good list of examples the other year).

    As with all these things, some work far more than the time / days mentioned above ... and others don't. Most of my friends, those who are teachers, work far more than the above ... in fact, people I know who are teachers who don't ... they don't generally become friends ... with me or my teacher friends.

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    how does it work if you take time off unpaid, is it calculated the same way.

  11. #25

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    so if you went on strike in support of the teachers, you'd lose more than them because of it. seems fair.
    i'm sure when support staff strike for a support related issue the teachers will flock out in support too.........................

  12. #26

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    I'm not personally convinced that things need to be fair, after all anyone who strikes surely isn't being fair against the people they work for (the pupils, not the gov). But that's another topic entirely.

  13. #27

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    I think everyone here is thinking along a more 'socialist' line... Whereas the UK has been progressively removing its socialist aspects, and heading towards a far more US style capitalist economy.

    So, fairness is just not going to happen!

  14. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I think everyone here is thinking along a more 'socialist' line... Whereas the UK has been progressively removing its socialist aspects, and heading towards a far more US style capitalist economy.

    So, fairness is just not going to happen!
    I think that you have analysed it incorrectly. This issue isn't about 'fairness'. It's about Labour's fetishisation of certain professions. Nurses, doctors and teachers all had huge pay rises under Labour. However the IT industry's salaries at the low end have hardly budged. When I started in IT in 2001 the typical salary for a 1-year experienced IT monkey was £16k. It's now about £19k. That's roughly a 20% rise in earnings in 10 years, which means that in real terms (including inflation) IT workers have seen their salaries fall. There are private sector pressures here too, particularly outsourcing by corporates of tech functions to India.
    By contrast nurses and teachers saw something like a 50% rise in income over 10 years and doctors a 200% rise in income.

    The main reason for this was that the largest public-sector unions bankrolled Labour.

    Britain's labour market is doing anything but heading towards a US system. By contrast, labour laws are so restrictive now that it's very hard to fire someone, and almost impossible in the public sector.

  15. #29

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    Of course it's discriminatory. The entire set up in schools between teachers and support staff is discriminatory, because teachers have more powerful unions. Suffice to say, I'm in work on Thursday...

    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    so if you went on strike in support of the teachers, you'd lose more than them because of it. seems fair.
    i'm sure when support staff strike for a support related issue the teachers will flock out in support too.........................
    Just like they did 2/3 years ago when Unison went out on strike.

    No, hang on -

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