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General Chat Thread, The new iPad advert......seriously?! in General; Originally Posted by Pottsey Technology wise it has groundbreaking chips with the GPU power of an Xbox 360 or PlayStation ...
  1. #76

    Theblacksheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pottsey View Post
    Technology wise it has groundbreaking chips with the GPU power of an Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 in a tablet. What’s even more impressive if the next generation of chips. The Ipad 2 was just a refresh; the Ipad3 is using a true new generation and will be massively more powerful.

    ipad2 gpu can do under 10 million triangles per sec.

    xbox/ps3 can do over 280, and they are old.

    Nowhere near. I dont know how Apple do it to people...
    Last edited by Theblacksheep; 20th June 2011 at 06:21 PM.

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroHour View Post
    Sigh... that is not the best of statements to make, it presumes that the sole reason people wont touch it is because it has a logo and not because of justified reasons as well as a dislike for apple. I dont particularly like apple but I still use there stuff so I am not in the *most* bracket there but no one should presume thats the sole reason. I would expect a lot of people would have good reasons too. Maybe its slated because it is not fit for their environment?
    I am aware of several haters of MS that struggle to ever want that wares to touch their network but normally they have reasons as well as a dislike for MS, I would never presume they just slate it because its MS, that has little respect for the person.
    My apologies for missing out the ... perhaps the emphasis was slightly wrong for some people. After all, I can't sit on the fence all the time.

    Yeh currently it is leading the way, limitations/problems aside, but then so is pen/paper limitations aside.... funnily if I forget about limitation/problems all things are really good (jk).
    Although the problems are minor to your environment it should not be presumed they are not for others, neither should it be presumed people should ignore those points rather then wait a little before changing and seeing the lay of the land as it were. Rushing is NEVER the correct course of action and this device is only a year old...
    Also some just say its too limited without elaborating, although its best to give a bit more I would never think its because of apple hating, we are all more professional then that!
    Oh how I wish people were more professional. If that were the case then we would not have FanBois giving / receiving -rep for being FanBois and Mac-slaters giving / receiving -rep for being mac-slaters.

    But back to the discussion in question. The Advert points out a number of areas where Apple believe they are doing a 'good thing'. It is marketing spin.
    The comments about using it in education, then yes ... a teacher will see it as the future ... but they also know that whilst the device in front of them is pushing what happens for the future that does not mean that the device itself will *be* the future in its entirety. The automatic "I'm not going to look at it" which crops up all too often disappoints me. In days of yore we would have had studies on this done by Govt QANGOs of course ... whereas now we have a number of small groups of people wanting to do stuff with a device which suits their needs and each time you mention using an iPad on this site it gets slapped down by people who should be a tad more open.

    And yes .. the blind faith some people have in the Apple product market is misplaced, but that doesn't mean the devices and tools you get cannot be well worth it.

    In situations like these, where people have very polarised viewpoints on certain technologies, solutions, manufacturers or products I often fall back on "If you have nothing positive to contribute then don't" ... but that can be a tad too dismissive of some very constructive criticism you get from outside observers (as well as coming over as very arrogant). Instead how about putting it as "Can you make alternative suggestions about how x or y may be done" and then start wondering about the idea of it being on a single device, about whether touchscreen / tablet / slate style is more appropriate to netbooks, about whether the cost investment and the time / management investment is worth the positive results ...


    On that note ... there will be a TeachShare session tomorrow evening (7-8) from Vital.ac.uk looking at mobile devices in schools. I'll copy the link in here when I can of the recording ... it is aimed at educationalists (mainly teachers) but might open up a few areas to think about what schools are looking at and why.
    Last edited by GrumbleDook; 20th June 2011 at 06:02 PM. Reason: spelling

  3. #78

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    I think in general it wouldn't harm things if a few more people started thinking about the future rather than the past, and more importantly on behalf of the people that would/could benefit from the technology rather than themselves or their own opinions.

  4. #79

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    I hate this ad beyond measure, and that Apple are playing it twice every sodding ad break makes me want to smash my tv. Apple stuff is popular because Apple is a marketing company, their products too are designed in the same way that ads are. You should do this, this is cool, breath in, breath out etc.

    Whoever wrote Idiorcacy was a freaking profit and I dearly hope I die before it gets too far along.
    Last edited by SYNACK; 20th June 2011 at 08:27 PM.

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    DrCheese's Avatar
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    See? That's the kind of attitude that I mentioned earlier. Some people hate Apple simply because it's Apple. It doesn't matter what they release, they'll hate it. That's almost as stupid as being a full on fanboy who thinks everything they release is pure gold. People decry those who buy it for the name, then hate the product... because of the name. The hypocrisy s outstanding.

    It drives me crazy.
    Last edited by DrCheese; 20th June 2011 at 09:04 PM.

  6. #81

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrCheese View Post
    See? That's the kind of attitude that I mentioned earlier. Some people hate Apple simply because it's Apple. It doesn't matter what they release, they'll hate it. That's almost as stupid as being a full on fanboy who thinks everything they release is pure gold. People decry those who buy it for the name, then hate the product... because of the name. The hypocrisy s outstanding.

    It drives me crazy.
    Me, yes I hate Apple. They do do some stuff that is alright but it is too far tainted by their other efforts. Stuff like this Ad and its bobardment of people psycies. I have used an iPad and yes it has a web browser, big freaking deal, it also has apps but it also has an underlying poisonus mindset that it pushes in everything that it does. I hate Apple for reasons, for rebranding existing tech and convincing the world that it has just invented everything. For paying and twisting the media to a degree usually reserved for oppressive governments. For sueing and threatening discenting users, for denying widespread manufacturing issues (mackboot screen cook, timemachine timebomb external hard drives etc.)

    In summary, yes, I hate Apple but it is not as if I have no reasons to and if they get too embedded they will make MS of the ninties look like generous genies that granted wishes to everyone on the planet.

  7. #82

    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    @ Synack, mattx and others, Apple is doing a free iPad , see below

    The new iPad advert......seriously?!-eye-pad.jpg

  8. #83

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    @Synack if I took the same view I would hate MS, Dell, HP, Sun, Oracle, Adobe, Macromedia (as was), RM, Capita, Serco, Pearson, Heinemann, Cisco, HP (again), Capita (again), BT (too many times to mention), SuSE, Sun (again), Google ... and yes, Apple .... and the list goes on. More than I care to think about.

    If people are going to have this sort of attitude to one manufacturer and not to others, then we might as well go back to teacher-bashing, RM-hating, Capita-loathing, anti-Govt control freaks. And it will be a sorry day if we do.

  9. Thanks to GrumbleDook from:

    DrCheese (21st June 2011)

  10. #84

    nephilim's Avatar
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    Some people have said that Apple have got the fundamentals right and built on that...lets expand on this shall we?

    Ipod - The original iteration of the Ipod had a black and white screen in 2001, this was marketed at the time as ground breaking however as with all things Apple, someone did this before them!

    A company called Yellowstone had an MP3 player with a COLOUR screen and shown an equaliser (something that the original Ipod did not do). This was done in 1997. Yellowstone is now bust btw because it was not marketed well, but just pointing out someone got there first.

    Apple OS-X. Fine Apple admitted it was not the best OS they ever released, but they marketed it at the time as something that "works". How wrong they were, it did not recognise Midi keyboards, USB camera's, firewire scanners etc, yet Windows ME and Windows 2000 did so perfectly fine (albeit you had to install drivers - something unheard of for Apple back then).

    Original iPhone - marketed as the first and best smartphone, at the time it was very good there is no denying it, but the first? Sorry I think 3 had that covered many many many years ago, not to mention windows mobile at the time as well.

    Now what Apple do is good, they build upon their products and make them better (no denying this) but they do so in such a way that alienates a lot of people. Because they added a slightly better CPU they have to rebrand the whole thing and call it the best ever *insert product here* or they add a feature that others have had for years (3G...again 3 had that covered on all of their phones since 2004 I believe).

    iTunes is probably the only thing they got right as the apps on there for the most part do work across the board (not many others can say that, I cant use an app on the mrs Samung Galaxy S on my HTC Desire HD (rooted or otherwise) and I could not use a windows mobile app on windows 7). Yes they did that well, but they focus on the minutiae that annoys the technologically savvy people.

    Apples marketing, if it was more sensible, then as a whole they would have a better respect. They need to learn to pull their head out of their backsides and be honest and tell people we took this idea and we believe we improved it, rather than this is OUR idea, its not like the rest that come before because it is an Apple invention. Let the neg rep begin!

  11. #85

    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    Some people have said that Apple have got the fundamentals right and built on that...lets expand on this shall we?Ipod - The original iteration of the Ipod had a black and white screen in 2001, this was marketed at the time as ground breaking however as with all things Apple, someone did this before them!A company called Yellowstone had an MP3 player with a COLOUR screen and shown an equaliser (something that the original Ipod did not do). This was done in 1997. Yellowstone is now bust btw because it was not marketed well, but just pointing out someone got there first.Apple OS-X. Fine Apple admitted it was not the best OS they ever released, but they marketed it at the time as something that "works". How wrong they were, it did not recognise Midi keyboards, USB camera's, firewire scanners etc, yet Windows ME and Windows 2000 did so perfectly fine (albeit you had to install drivers - something unheard of for Apple back then).Original iPhone - marketed as the first and best smartphone, at the time it was very good there is no denying it, but the first? Sorry I think 3 had that covered many many many years ago, not to mention windows mobile at the time as well. Now what Apple do is good, they build upon their products and make them better (no denying this) but they do so in such a way that alienates a lot of people. Because they added a slightly better CPU they have to rebrand the whole thing and call it the best ever *insert product here* or they add a feature that others have had for years (3G...again 3 had that covered on all of their phones since 2004 I believe).iTunes is probably the only thing they got right as the apps on there for the most part do work across the board (not many others can say that, I cant use an app on the mrs Samung Galaxy S on my HTC Desire HD (rooted or otherwise) and I could not use a windows mobile app on windows 7). Yes they did that well, but they focus on the minutiae that annoys the technologically savvy people.Apples marketing, if it was more sensible, then as a whole they would have a better respect. They need to learn to pull their head out of their backsides and be honest and tell people we took this idea and we believe we improved it, rather than this is OUR idea, its not like the rest that come before because it is an Apple invention. Let the neg rep begin!
    No neg rep from me - I just wish they would make an apple mac between the imac and mac pro and the vital part here, keep the EFI graphics card firmware up to date, they recently brought out a mac version of the ati 5870 for the mac pro for £300 but on ebay you can buy compatable flashed pc card for around the £200 mark or even buy a pc card around £130 and flash it yourself and at this point in time both nvidia and amd / ati have the 500 series ( gtx 580/590 ) and 6000 ( 6950 ) gfx cards out which are already better than the 5870

  12. #86
    pr1vate_piles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    I've always thought it should be 'I'm a PC and Windows 7 was my fault.
    shame they never did the same for vista, then we would know who to hunt haha

  13. #87

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pr1vate_piles View Post
    shame they never did the same for vista, then we would know who to hunt haha
    But Vista ran extremely well for me. I even had it running whilst doing a demo at Reading a few years back. Admittedly it was running on a MacBookPro under BootCamp, but hey ... each to their own. When doing a fair chunk of Sharepoint stuff you need to run Windows, but then I was swapping back to OSX for day-to-day work (including audio / video editing)

    Nothing more fun than turning up and presenting on a Mac, but using Ubuntu or Windows ... for some reason a number of MS folk think of me as seriously Open Source ... and Open Source folk think of me as a MS evangelist ... and yet I get called a FanBoi here.

  14. #88


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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    A company called Yellowstone had an MP3 player with a COLOUR screen and shown an equaliser (something that the original iPod did not do). This was done in 1997. Yellowstone is now bust btw because it was not marketed well, but just pointing out someone got there first.
    Do you have a link? I can't find anything on Google or Wikipedia about this MP3 player. None of the MP3 player history websites list it either.

    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    iPod - The original iteration of the iPod had a black and white screen in 2001, this was marketed at the time as ground breaking however as with all things Apple, someone did this before them!
    The original iPod was successful because it was small, easy to use, it looked good and transferring music was quick. Before it came along, you had MP3 players which used bulky 2.5" laptop HDDs or low capacity flash memory (32, 64MB or 128MB) and USB 1.1/parallel ports! The Rio Karma was a good MP3 player with several unique features, but this wasn't released until 2003 and you couldn't buy it in the UK. Sony probably had the best chance against Apple, but they blew it on multiple occasions by creating MP3 players where you had to convert your already lossy music into thier proprietry lossy ATRAC3 format and forced you to use thier crappy SonicStage software. By the time they released something decent it was far too late.

    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    Original iPhone - marketed as the first and best smartphone, at the time it was very good there is no denying it, but the first?
    Where did Apple say the iPhone was the first smartphone ever created? Steve didn't say this in his 2007 keynote and it wasn't mentioned in any of the TV ads or the Apple website?



    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    Sorry I think 3 had that covered many many many years ago, not to mention Windows Mobile at the time as well.
    The first 3G phones (like the NEC e606 and Motorola A830) were ****! What is the point of paying for an expensive 3G Internet connection, when you're stuck with sub-200px LCDs and limited to WAP or mobile-specific websites?

    I also know many teachers who bought Windows Mobile phones (HP iPAQs and O2 XDAs etc.) and they all stopped using them out of frustration (either that, or they lost their styluses). If you remember, new Windows Mobile phones usually consisted of the previous model, but with a bit more RAM/ROM memory and a slightly faster processor. Where was the innovation back then?

    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    They need to learn to pull their head out of their backsides and be honest and tell people we took this idea and we believe we improved it, rather than this is OUR idea.
    Apple has done this in their keynote videos. However, saying your products are slightly better than your competitors in adverts is generally a bad idea and a waste of money.



    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    they focus on the minutiae that annoys the technologically savvy people.
    Good design is important and it's a shame manufacturers and software developers don't pay more attention to the minutiae...

    Google still has major issues with text selection and editing on Android devices. The first striking problem is that there is not a consistent method of selecting text on the device. None. At all. In the browser, you long press on text to bring up your anchors, then drag and tap the center of your selection -- boom, copied text. In text editing fields, however, in order to select a word you must long press on the word, wait for a contextual menu to pop up, and then select "select word" -- a completely counterintuitive process. In the message app you can long press to select only the entire message, and in Google Reader? You can't select any text at all. Even worse, Gmail has a different method for selecting text from an email you're reading, and it's far more obnoxious than any of the others. There, selecting text goes from being mildly annoying to downright silly. Want to grab some text out of an email? Here's your process: hit the menu key, hit "more," hit "select text," and then finally drag your anchors out. Funnily enough, a little cursor appears when you start selecting -- a holdover from Linux? To have this many options and discrepancies over something as simple as copy and paste should be embarrassing to Google. What it mostly is, however, is a pain to the end user.

    And that's kind of the crux of our problem with Android in its current state. We don't question the power of the OS, but the fit, finish, and ease of use simply is still not there. There is something disconcerting about an operating system that changes its rules from app to app -- for a mobile interface to work well, it has to be approached holistically and organically. There is something cohesive in OSs like webOS and iOS -- a language that you can easily learn to speak and feel confident about using to get what you want -- that just seems to be missing here. (Source)

  15. #89

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    @Synack if I took the same view I would hate MS, Dell, HP, Sun, Oracle, Adobe, Macromedia (as was), RM, Capita, Serco, Pearson, Heinemann, Cisco, HP (again), Capita (again), BT (too many times to mention), SuSE, Sun (again), Google ... and yes, Apple .... and the list goes on. More than I care to think about.

    If people are going to have this sort of attitude to one manufacturer and not to others, then we might as well go back to teacher-bashing, RM-hating, Capita-loathing, anti-Govt control freaks. And it will be a sorry day if we do.
    And what is so wrong with actually accepting the way things are. Not everyone preffers to walk around in a bubble of self delusion, this may well be my main irritation with the ads and the whole culture it promotes.

    A child thinks its magic... what kind of neglectful parents or defective kids result in this, how low are they aiming.

    What is wrong of a little healthy dislike of various vendors, nowhere did I say that I did not have a chunk of dislike for most of the vendors that you list (the ones I have dealt with/heard of). Why should I just lie back and accept the preditory behaviour of these companies. It is everyone simply accepting this as the status quo that is the reason they can get away with as much as they do.

    Welcome to reality, if they treat you badly complain and look for better solutions, if you don't you are propogating the problem by rewarding and accepting their behaviour.

  16. #90

    MK-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    RM-hating
    i'll gladly get on board that!

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