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General Chat Thread, MS to clean up with pads? in General; I'm starting to think the MS will soon clean up in the pad/tablet department within education. IPads wont/dont run Flash/Java ...
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    SimpleSi's Avatar
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    MS to clean up with pads?

    I'm starting to think the MS will soon clean up in the pad/tablet department within education.

    IPads wont/dont run Flash/Java so quite a bit of educational software is unavailable to it.

    'droid tablets don't have working proxy support (Well maybe 1 has but not yet really proven).

    Both of them won't run legacy Win software or integrate easily into existing managed networks.

    All MS need to do is to put a finger friendly on top of Windows and the market is all theirs!

    I wonder if they've noticed

    Si

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    AngryTechnician's Avatar
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    The biggest problem MS face is not being able to dictate the hardware in the same way Apple can, and Windows tablets will be no exception.

    Half the reason Windows gets a bad rep is because some manufacturers insist on loading it onto sub-standard hardware with 3rd-rate drivers. Vista was the biggest victim of this: almost all of the problems I have ever seen with Vista installs were down to a) too little RAM, or b) half-baked drivers. When Microsoft tried to certify particular hardware as "Vista ready", all that happened is Intel whinged so much that their tinpot graphics chipsets were excluded, that Microsoft caved and crippled the requirements. The result? Customer lawsuit, and a lot of bad rep.

    Then when hardware isn't the problem, it's interference with the software by vendors. Back in the day, Creative Labs almost singe-handedly scuppered Windows Media as a serious competitor to the iPod by insisting on building their own terrible software for use with their audio players, instead of just using Windows Media Player. This was at a time when Creative had superior hardware to the iPod, something they could only dream of now. And how many of us are sick with the amount of bloat and c**pware loaded onto almost any Windows machine even today? We all know to just reformat and start fresh, but your average consumer doesn't have that option, and their experience suffers as a result.

    Microsoft don't stand a chance of "cleaning up" unless they seriously reign in the idiot vendors who think they know better, and they face an uphill struggle to do it. Good luck to them, I say. They'll need it.

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    As an iPad owner and IT teacher I try to balance the benefits of all manufacturers / developers. For instance, I could plug ipads all day long as there are some fanastic apps for education out there but we are a Microsoft-fitted school and don't offer any Mac support. One of our feeder schools bought a load of Macs so the kids are used to them and don't use some of the software you may have in mind. I honestly agree as a Windows user all the way back to 3.1/95/NT that Windows used to have a lot of potential. My first smartphone was a Windows mobile with 3G, wifi and GPS and that was over 5 years ago!

    Sadly now I wouldn't touch any of them with a bargepole. I take my MBP to school rather than use our Windows desktops as I can work just as well on my machine that runs (or appears to) orders of magnitude more quickly as it doesn't need a mammoth Win7 disk image. My ipad has instant on, the iphone is a great remote for the laptop for presentations and with desktop sharing/broadcasting coming up i'm more than happy. I can also d/l RDP apps that let me remote into the school network and access my work, that and Sharepoint admin apps to help manage the learning platform.

    Microsoft should have cleaned up in tablets years ago, but missed the boat. I hear what you're saying on the bloatware - it's borderline criminal some of the useless junk 3rd parties load on new windows machines. Yes there are apps that Macs can't run, but if you want education apps that will run on anything, make web apps that don't need Flash. The flash video format is inefficient, drains battery power from any machine and is incompatible with many mobile handsets.

    Am a bit bored of the flash argument now, move onto HTML5 / ogg / H264 / etc and let's innovate and make some decent new apps that can be run on multiple platforms! Who's with me???

    (ps. here endeth the rant oh and wasn't intended to sound like a rant, just fed up with sub-standard software and equipment because it's education!)

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    3s-gtech's Avatar
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    I can seriously see the appeal of the Asus Iconia Tab W500. AMD Fusion, Windows 7, docking keyboard. There are a couple of shortcomings with that which would stop me from speccing it in school, but it only needs a touch more work and I'll be seriously interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3s-gtech View Post
    I can seriously see the appeal of the Asus Iconia Tab W500. AMD Fusion, Windows 7, docking keyboard. There are a couple of shortcomings with that which would stop me from speccing it in school, but it only needs a touch more work and I'll be seriously interested.
    Just got a Brookstone bluetooth wireless keyboard / leather case / stand all in one as a gift for ipad2 and it's pretty impressive, only downside is it needs to come with a mouse so have to carry my magic mouse with me too! Perhaps using onboard cameras as some sort of eye-tracking tool might be useful??

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    SimpleSi's Avatar
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    Am a bit bored of the flash argument now, move onto HTML5 / ogg / H264 / etc and let's innovate and make some decent new apps that can be run on multiple platforms! Who's with me???
    I work in primaries - a lot of primary software has been moved from CDs to the cloud (or still runs on CDs). Almost 100% of this stuff requires flash/java so being bored by the IPad not running it is not a luxury that can be indulged in.

    3S-gtech has put it plainly - just a bit more work (IMO - in the UI and possibly in the processor power dept) and win tablets will hit the cliff (at the bottom and run up them )

    I try to balance the benefits of all manufacturers / developers
    Doesn't quite ring true when you won't touch a windows machine with a bargepole nowadays
    I remember seeing one of leaders posting something about his lovely MacBook running like a dog nowadays -bloat is not confined to any OS - my 'droid phone is full of stuff I don't use but it still works (Just)

    Si
    Last edited by SimpleSi; 20th June 2011 at 12:08 AM.

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    FN-GM's Avatar
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    The lack of proxy support in android is a killer for me. I wonder what the BlackBerry tablet is like

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    nephilim's Avatar
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    BB Tab looks decent, waiting for a trial unit

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryTechnician View Post
    Microsoft don't stand a chance of "cleaning up" unless they seriously reign in the idiot vendors who think they know better, and they face an uphill struggle to do it. Good luck to them, I say. They'll need it.
    You're right about vendors who think they know better. OEMs such as Acer don't like Microsoft's restrictions for ARM-based Windows 8 tablets.


    Regardless of OS, what I would like to see is for tablet manufacturers to stop releasing unfinished hardware with buggy software and/or missing features. These things aren't cheap!

    Quote Originally Posted by FN-GM View Post
    I wonder what the BlackBerry tablet is like
    The PlayBook reminds me of Windows 98 with its "out of memory" messages...



    RIM should have definitely added more RAM because the OS itself uses around 600MB leaving just 400MB for everything else.

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    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    Just to throw something else into the equation - it would be nice if you could multi boot the iPad 2 like you can a mac so it can ( if you want it to ) run win mob, android etc.

    As for the proxy thing there is another thread on edugeek showing a few different apps you can use for the proxy side. Never had an android phone personally

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    Err my HTC Desire HD has a proxy box now, since the latest updates.

    We run transparent proxy anyways but still droid does support proxies now.

    Edit: For all you guys with Android 2.3.3 and can't find your proxy. Its in "Settings" then "Wireless & Networks" then "Wifi Settings", on y HTC I have to hit the menu button and choose "Advanced" then I get a "Wifi Proxy" choice.

    I assume it works, I don't actually have to use it, but it is new.
    Last edited by Achandler; 20th June 2011 at 08:00 AM. Reason: Proxy Support Details

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    Quote Originally Posted by FN-GM View Post
    The lack of proxy support in android is a killer for me. I wonder what the BlackBerry tablet is like
    3.1 has proxy support built in and it seems to work quite well. I can rdp into servers on mine quite happily as well although for both rdp and smb it does seem more reliable with ip rather than name

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Achandler View Post
    Err my HTC Desire HD has a proxy box now, since the latest updates.

    We run transparent proxy anyways but still droid does support proxies now.

    Edit: For all you guys with Android 2.3.3 and can't find your proxy. Its in "Settings" then "Wireless & Networks" then "Wifi Settings", on y HTC I have to hit the menu button and choose "Advanced" then I get a "Wifi Proxy" choice.

    I assume it works, I don't actually have to use it, but it is new.
    Doesn't seem to work for me. Stuck in our proxy details and zip, nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    3.1 has proxy support built in and it seems to work quite well. I can rdp into servers on mine quite happily as well although for both rdp and smb it does seem more reliable with ip rather than name


    Neither RDP or SMB use proxy servers. Proxies are HTTP/HTTPS etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Neither RDP or SMB use proxy servers. Proxies are HTTP/HTTPS etc...
    i know (and probably should of added it as a 2nd line but rdp had been mentioned earlier so i thought id share my experience of it on android

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    mthomas08's Avatar
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    If MS did do the above then we would be on the list to buy it, everytime we purchase a new piece of kit we always think "Will MS stuff work on it". We have a sony IPad here some where I believe, we tried putting windows XP on it ages ago.

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