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General Chat Thread, Scottish Independence in General; Originally Posted by LiamH I did raise that point on another forum "oh so you have the oil fields? and ...
  1. #16
    AyatollahPies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamH View Post
    I did raise that point on another forum "oh so you have the oil fields? and which navy will you send to protect them if we decide they are ours"

    As for the prescriptions / University fees, we really need an English parliament for that, the government looks after the UK, and the Scottish, welsh and northern Ireland parliaments look after themselves, we don't have anyone to fight for us. The Campaign for an English Parliament
    Considering a large amount of serving personnel in the armed forces are from the other home nations, and considering that they've got a great big Nuclear submarine base up their, I don't think they'd have any trouble at all defending it from "us".

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    MK-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AyatollahPies View Post
    Considering a large amount of serving personnel in the armed forces are from the other home nations, and considering that they've got a great big Nuclear submarine base up their, I don't think they'd have any trouble at all defending it from "us".
    lets be fair, the way the whole country is at the moment, an ant hill could probably invade us and have a fair chance of success!

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    It'd likely end up being a shared military, or they'd become a protectorate or similar (kinda like the Isle of Man).

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    Quote Originally Posted by AyatollahPies View Post
    Considering a large amount of serving personnel in the armed forces are from the other home nations, and considering that they've got a great big Nuclear submarine base up their, I don't think they'd have any trouble at all defending it from "us".

    Unless those personnel are extremely good at tossing missiles they don't have from dry land (maybe thats why they do timber tossing in the highlands!) i don't think we have much of a problem. Unless you think its going to be a hostile split where they try half inch the British army/navy equipment.

    Don't get me wrong, i hope the Scottish stay apart of the UK because i think its mutually beneficent and have have no issue with the Scots, i was meant to be a bit of lighthearted humor.

  5. #20

    ZeroHour's Avatar
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    Sadly we are not in anywhere as nice a position as the first vote for independence.
    How black gold was hijacked: North sea oil and the betrayal of Scotland - This Britain, UK - The Independent is a worthwhile read, there is a reason the Tories get nowhere in scotlands votes.
    The thing that depresses me is when I speak to my Norwegian friends who have a government with buckets of cash and a similar population to us.
    The tax increase for oil is going to be a big problem in Scotland for jobs, they increased the tax from 20% to 32% to raise and extra £2b which means roughly the gov must get £4b of direct tax and that excludes other parts so its certainly going to be more then £3b.

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    ZeroHour's Avatar
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    Wow my post killed this thread lol.

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    Gatt's Avatar
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    @ZeroHour: Typical English - Start something but cant finish it..



    My 2cents..

    I personally think Independence will be a bad move for Scotland... I think a bit more devolved power at most, a bit less of the ties to the UK, but not full blown Independence as I do not feel we can realistically support ourselves as a nation ( Financially, logistically, Defencively..)

    I think the SNP may be in for a surprise when the referendum (Which, despite being a Scot, I will not be able to have a say in!) happens..

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    nephilim's Avatar
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    A country need only fail on one of the eight criteria to not meet the definition of independent country status. Scotland does not meet all eight criteria; it fails on six of the eight criteria...

    Has space or territory that has internationally recognized boundaries (boundary disputes are OK).
    Yes, Scotland does have internationally recognized boundaries. Scotland is 78,133 square kilometers in area.

    Has people who live there on an ongoing basis.
    Yes, according to the 2001 census, Scotland's population is 5,062,011.

    Has economic activity and an organized economy. A country regulates foreign and domestic trade and issues money.
    Somewhat. Scotland certainly has economic activity and an organized economy; Scotland even has its own GDP (over 62 billion pounds as of 1998). However, Scotland does not regulate foreign or domestic trade, the Scottish Parliament is not authorized to do so.

    Under the terms of the Scotland Act 1998, the Scottish Parliament is able to pass laws on a range of issues known as "devolved issues." The United Kingdom Parliament is able to act on "reserved issues." Reserved issues include a variety of economic issues: fiscal, economic and monetary system; energy; common markets; and trade and industry.

    The Bank of Scotland does issue money but it prints the British pound on behalf of the central government.

    Has the power of social engineering, such as education.
    Somewhat. The Scottish Parliament is able to control education, training, and social work (but not social security). However, this power was granted to Scotland by the UK Parliament.

    Has a transportation system for moving goods and people.
    Somewhat. Scotland itself has a transportation system but the system is not fully under Scottish control. The Scottish Parliament controls some aspects of transportation, including the Scottish road network, bus policy and ports and harbors while the UK Parliament controls railways, transport safety and regulation. Again, Scotland's power was granted by the UK Parliament.

    Has a government that provides public services and police power.
    Somewhat. The Scottish Parliament has the ability to control law and home affairs (including most aspects of criminal and civil law, the prosecution system and the courts) as well as the police and fire services. The UK Parliament controls defense and national security across the United Kingdom. Again, Scotland's power was granted to Scotland by the UK Parliament.

    Has sovereignty. No other State should have power over the country's territory.
    No. The United Kingdom Parliament definitely has power over Scotland's territory.

    Has external recognition. A country has been "voted into the club" by other countries.
    No. Scotland does not have external recognition nor does Scotland have its own embassies in other independent countries.

    Because of this, Scotland (nor Wales, nor Northern Ireland, nor England itself) is not an independent country nor is it a State. However, Scotland is most certainly a nation of people living in an internal division of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

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    Gatt's Avatar
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    Hmmm.. so the Englsh "invade and conquer" the Scots disquising it as the Act Of Union (1707)
    Then in 2007 they kindly give us some powers back, but not all of it and stil keep us under the thumb

    Think that about sums it up

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatt View Post
    Hmmm.. so the Englsh "invade and conquer" the Scots disquising it as the Act Of Union (1707)
    Then in 2007 they kindly give us some powers back, but not all of it and stil keep us under the thumb

    Think that about sums it up
    Scots need to get over something several hundred years old. They needed to be tamed and we tamed them ; )

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    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    I have a lot to say on this matter. Mostly opinion notr a lot of it fact. But i will be back to enlighten you all with my ramblings at a later point

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatt View Post
    @ZeroHour: Typical English - Start something but cant finish it..



    My 2cents..

    I personally think Independence will be a bad move for Scotland... I think a bit more devolved power at most, a bit less of the ties to the UK, but not full blown Independence as I do not feel we can realistically support ourselves as a nation ( Financially, logistically, Defencively..)

    I think the SNP may be in for a surprise when the referendum (Which, despite being a Scot, I will not be able to have a say in!) happens..
    Well, you don't live there, so you shouldn't get a vote... I'm originally from Birmingham but don't get a say in their local elections...

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    Gatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiser View Post
    Scots need to get over something several hundred years old. They needed to be tamed and we tamed them ; )
    Tell you what, we'll get over it if you lot shut up about 1966

  14. Thanks to Gatt from:

    RabbieBurns (7th November 2011)

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    beeswax's Avatar
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    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabbieBurns View Post
    I have a lot to say on this matter. Mostly opinion notr a lot of it fact. But i will be back to enlighten you all with my ramblings at a later point
    Interesting article today in the herald:

    The myths of independence - Herald Scotland | News | Politics

    ...Scotland accounts for 8.4% of the UK population, but in 2009-10 contributed 9.4% of overall UK tax revenue...
    ...It is calculated that more than half of the total value of North Sea reserves have yet to be extracted...
    etc

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