General Chat Thread, Why you should vote YES to AV on Thursday: in General; I know that AV will not bring this but the reform I would like to see is this:
United Kingdom ...
4th May 2011, 02:19 PM #91
I know that AV will not bring this but the reform I would like to see is this:
United Kingdom general election, 2005 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Percentage of seats won to actual country wide vote percentage???? Completely nuts!
AV is a step in the right direction, change will be good!
4th May 2011, 02:21 PM #92
Originally Posted by TechMonkey
4th May 2011, 02:26 PM #93
So you are saying that using a fact from a website that doesn't want AV to show a plus for AV is bad?
4th May 2011, 02:49 PM #94
No, I'm saying if it was on either the yes or no websites it's been erm, 'sponsored' shall we say and so shouldn't be relied on as fact.
4th May 2011, 03:26 PM #95
I would say that is even more valid as it was on the opposite website. That means before being sponsored the stats were probably higher so the percent up for grabs is higher.
4th May 2011, 03:40 PM #96
People should not confuse a majority government and majority vote. The No campaign are avoiding some of the figures and the Yes campaign are twisting them. Spin on both sides.
A majority government (which the coalition is) is where the majority of seats are controlled by the government, and this is often forgotten. A majority vote for the governing party (when a single party) is always going to be rare in FPTP.
The only true way that AV will be stopped from having the political backbiting and backdoor deals is to have it as a staged vote. Have the voting run over many rounds, and in each round the one with the lower number of votes is eliminated. I know it sounds a tad X Factor, but it would allow for parties to be more open about when they are picking up sections of the manifesto of others when trying to win votes. It will reduce strategic voting on the day (allowing the groups which people aren't really interested in) to get through.
PR is not an option as far as I am concerned. It will be even messier than coalitions through AV.
As much as I know there is a need for change and that all views need to be considered, there are times when you just have to either accept that someone has to make decisions, or you just accept that it is all political spin and back stabbing ... so why not just go and let the Civil Service get on with keeping the country running without the meddling of politicians. They are not all like Sir Humphrey.
4th May 2011, 04:14 PM #97
The problem with that though would be if parties changed their PR after each round... measures would have to be put in place to stop them from looking which party went out first and trying to snatch up their votes.
Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
AV could end up with parties having their "main selling points" in order to get the first votes, but then having "catch all" policies in order to get the second and third votes... Would this would be a good thing as all parties would have to appeal to all people, or would this be a bad thing for the exact same reason?
4th May 2011, 04:43 PM #98
But that is part of the beauty of it ... it becomes self-regulating. If Party Y drops off after a particular round then It is up to other Parties to think about whether they want to scrabble for the loose votes. However, if they change what they were originally touting in their manifesto too much they could lose some of their existing votes, but if they don't listen to what the public are saying then they won't pick up any extra votes. They might think "oh ... to be honest I wouldn't want to be associated with supporters of that Party anyway, and if the others make a play for them then that is ammo for why we are better!"
Originally Posted by j17sparky
SyCo to run the electoral system? It could work you know.
6th May 2011, 08:04 PM #99
6th May 2011, 10:24 PM #100
Judging from the Slaughter of the LibDems.. guessing 1 of 2 things happened:
1) People voted NO because they didn't know enough about it
2) People voted NO because they don't like the LibDems...
Oh well.. we're stuck with FPTP for ever know folks....
6th May 2011, 11:13 PM #101
Or, the simple fact that the vast majority are perfectly happy with FPTP.
6th May 2011, 11:19 PM #102
Some people voted No because AV is very complicated and wasnt explained at all well. My brother in law was going to vote no until my sister sat him down and explained exactly how AV works and THEN he understood and voted yes. He is super-intelligent, so if he didnt get it, what hope was there for the rest of us?
Last edited by witch; 8th May 2011 at 11:03 PM.
8th May 2011, 11:29 AM #103
Unfortunately this appears to be a common trend and the fault of the Yes campaign's amazing failure to explain how AV works
Originally Posted by witch
Last edited by witch; 8th May 2011 at 11:04 PM.
8th May 2011, 12:45 PM #104
This is what I dislike about all of this campaiging the assumption that if you don't agree with a position then it's obviously because you're too thick and can't get your simple minds around it. Both the Yes and No vote are guilty of it. The Yes party as they appear to assume the poor electorate are just not capable of understanding how wonderfully liberal this system is, and the No party as they played to the lowest common denominator and played off peoples fears.
Originally Posted by Gatt
AV was a nasty little compromise, the Lib Dems fought so hard for what they knew was a floored system just to save face. I'd rather keep FPTP for a few more years until a better system such as PR is introduced, than impliment AV and regret it later.
8th May 2011, 12:57 PM #105
I liked your post Trapper, up until the last sentence.
PR, well, lets look at Scotland to see how representative that is. With the FPTP section of the vote, there were MSPs voted out because their constituents didn't want them, which is how democracy should work. However, because they had 'influence' in their party, they were also on the candidate list for the PR side of the vote and managed to stay an MSP through that.
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