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General Chat Thread, Why you should vote YES to AV on Thursday: in General; That might actually be a good idea. Just to keep things fresh, and help focus people in future on not ...
  1. #46

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    That might actually be a good idea. Just to keep things fresh, and help focus people in future on not being idiots when they stand/vote.

  2. #47

    featured_spectre's Avatar
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    go back to a 2 party system. Most countries in the world have a 2 party system and it works well for them (France, USA, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece, Canada, Mexico etc)

  3. #48

    Hightower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    go back to a 2 party system. Most countries in the world have a 2 party system and it works well for them (France, USA, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece, Canada, Mexico etc)
    Or, just let @localzuk run the country - he has an answer for everything

  4. #49


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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_guy View Post
    Some good arguments off the BBC site:

    1.That's bad news for complacent MPs - and extremists.
    Personally I'd say it's good for extremist parties. What about all those people who wouldn't choose BNP as their first choice but might put it down as a second or third? On the current system you completely waste your vote by doing a "protest vote for BNP", with AV you can get as many "votes" as you like.

    IMO there will be a fair few people who give the extremist parties a stab if we go to AV.

  5. #50

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    go back to a 2 party system. Most countries in the world have a 2 party system and it works well for them (France, USA, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece, Canada, Mexico etc)
    The USA doesn't have a 2 party system. They have dozens of parties country-wide, same with France and Canada. (Can't be bothered looking up the others).

    A 2 party system is inherently undemocratic. I disagree with both our largest parties' policies, so why should I vote for either of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hightower View Post
    Or, just let @localzuk run the country - he has an answer for everything
    Now that's an idea I can follow! First ruling would be 'hats for everyone!'...

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    given the vast majority vote one way or another, Labour or Conservative
    Untrue.
    Just take a look at the last election results, 65% of people voted either Conservative or Labour, not exectly a 'vast majority'. Only 36% on people voted Conservative and they are running the country! This can't be right can it?
    In the era of real two party politics (post war) Cons and Lab shared over 90% of the vote, then the FPTP system really meant something. However, for a while now governments have been formed with around 40% of the popular vote and the spread of votes between parties is increasing meaning that we are heading for more coalitions with the FPTP system anyway.
    AV might not be perfect but it is a step to a fairer system where elections are not decided by a handful of swing seats and opposition voters in a safe seat have no real meaning to their vote.
    Last edited by sparkeh; 4th May 2011 at 10:26 AM.

  7. #52

    MK-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Now that's an idea I can follow! First ruling would be 'hats for everyone!'...
    I knew you had something against us folically challenged people, BALDIST!

  8. #53

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    @j17sparky:
    Unfortunately that is democracy. But there have been studies that when people have a decent option they don't use protest votes. It was a study in Burnley but I can't find it now. But from a link on the site JJonas posted there is this
    Take a look at this House of Commons briefing note on the BNP. The three BNP councillors elected for the first time in Burnley in 2002 had an average vote share of 28.1%. This means that 71.9% of voters voted against these councillors, yet they were still elected. If you look at the vote share of BNP councillors elected in 2008 (p7), you’ll see that only one of the fifteen candidates was elected with more than 40% of the vote, and one, in Maltby, was elected with just 23.1% of the vote.

    Under AV the only way the BNP could have won these elections is to have picked up a sizable number of second preference votes. This is extremely unlikely, because, to quote this excellent guide to AV, “generally voters either support a party like the BNP, or hate it, so such parties gain very few second and third preferences.”
    from Would AV help the BNP? « Paperback Rioter
    Last edited by TechMonkey; 4th May 2011 at 10:27 AM.

  9. #54

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    I knew you had something against us folically challenged people, BALDIST!
    You also have the option of other headwear too - wigs, turbans, head polish.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    go back to a 2 party system. Most countries in the world have a 2 party system and it works well for them (France, USA, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece, Canada, Mexico etc)
    eh I wouldn't say it works well in America at all, you have two major parties but the massive range of views in the US doesn't fit into them at all. The Tea Party movement should really be an entirely separate political party but instead it's had to hjack the republican party to stand any hope of being elected.

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    First ruling would be 'hats for everyone!'...
    'Hats for everyone' reminds me of the "Free hats" episode of south park.

  12. #57
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    I'm going to vote no; anything that gives power to the Lib Dems has to be a bad move...

  13. #58
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    So does anyone know if we would still have a "coalition" running the country if we had used the new voting system?

  14. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by gshaw View Post
    I'm going to vote no; anything that gives power to the Lib Dems has to be a bad move...
    Please I beg of you, do a bit of research. Don't vote based on "I want to show xxx" or "This'll teach yyy".

    Don't base it on party politics, base it on the chance to start some real voting reform in the country.

  15. #60
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    I've watched all the videos on YouTube, the jungle and cat ones were good

    When you think about it all it effectively does is prolong the agony of the small parties losing by one round, I usually go for UKIP but know they won't win so then the vote goes to one of the big two.

    The Greens will then go for Labour \ Lib Dem and it ends up as 1 of the big 3 anyway and if that means Lib Dem get more votes as a result that's not a good thing :P

    If we wanted real reform why didn't they go for PR that seems to be the one that makes a real difference rather than this half-baked idea that no-one uses (3 countries out of the whole world isn't really showing much confidence in the system imo)



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