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General Chat Thread, Budget in General; Originally Posted by localzuk What are those points? The switch from RPI to CPI (or whichever way round it is, ...
  1. #61

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    What are those points?
    The switch from RPI to CPI (or whichever way round it is, anyway) for direct tax allowances, for one. I've barely seen it mentioned but it'll have a massive impact on no end of tax figures.

    I'm increasingly bitter about CPI and RPI now anyway because public sector pensions are now linked to the lower (CPI) whilst my student loan interest is tied to the higher (RPI)... they only have 2 figures so they can pick and choose the one that sounds best/makes more

  2. #62

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    ..and here's that mod you were waiting for...sorry - I have been involved with BBC SCHOOL REPORT all day and have not been about much.
    Thanks for going back to the budget.
    IMHO merging NI and Tax sounds good until you get into the realms of pensions - they don't take NI off pensioners so what will they do? Probably make some really complicated calculation no one can understand to show that pensioners are not worse off!
    Please could we stop blaming the last government. Those of us who are old enough can remember the complete mess the one before that made, AND the one before that too.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    Please could we stop blaming the last government. Those of us who are old enough can remember the complete mess the one before that made, AND the one before that too.
    but its a legitimate point. if i started work at a school where the last tech had been there for 15 years and had wasted thousands on useless kit and all servers were outdated and i came in and said right we cant spend on useless kit anymore as we need to fix the mess the last person left for 15 years, nobody would say "but those of us that remember who was here before him 16 years ago know we cant blame him".
    If, after 15 years of me working at the place, i haven't resolved any of the problems the person before me left and i then leave, then the next person is more than entitled to say "what a mess the guy before left, how did he not fix this in 15 years"

    if you are saying that labour took 15 years to try and get us out of the problems the tories got us into, well then how about we give the tories 15 years and assess if they get us out of the same mess, rather than 1 year in saying they are rubbish and we'd be better off without them

  4. 6 Thanks to MK-2:

    BatchFile (24th March 2011), damien.deakes (24th March 2011), Gibbo (24th March 2011), HallX (24th March 2011), kevbaz (24th March 2011), localzuk (24th March 2011)

  5. #64

    Gatt's Avatar
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    Didn't Thatcher and Co have to fix the problems made by the previous Labour Govt anyway? Ok so She sold off all our assets, but IIRC, by the end of the 80's The country was in a pretty damned good shape again..

  6. #65
    Galway's Avatar
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    If you can count the shafting of the mining industry, fishing industry ..and having the longest teaching strike i can remember as well as selling off all the public companies.

    Pretty damned good shape ??? ..... were you even there ?

  7. #66
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    @Galway

    In fairness, in the 70's, the unions didn't do the nationalised industries many favours.
    Last edited by HallX; 24th March 2011 at 02:01 PM.

  8. #67

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    No matter who you want to blame, whether it is the present Govt (or either of the parties), the last Govt, Govts all the way back to George III ... the banks, the oil industry, gangsters, rappers, gangsta rappers ... we all have to admit that part of the problem is the consumer culture which has made so many people more than happy to accept 125% mortgages, run up personal debt of shocking amounts ...

    Debt has become accepted as the norm rather than the exception. Instead of parents passing on savings to allow for support at university or buying that first home ... we are now in the situation where everyone is in debt, both personally and as part of the country.

    Austerity measures aimed at the whole country only work if you also say to people that they need to take some responsibility. For those who are on the breadline this is nigh on impossible, but a fair amount others can do it ...

    But then you get into a terrible balancing act. Beer and fags bring in money. It is whether they cost more than they bring in .. and not just medically, but the cost for police (dealing with everything from the nightly throw out from pubs, dealing with social issues, police support dealing with the illegal traffic of contraband goods, etc), the cost of people dying early and not making fuller contributions to the economy, the failure to get a full return on money invested in education ... the list goes on.

    For a lot of people the best you can hope for is that things don't get worse over the coming 3 years ... however, it is not so much the budget that will make a difference here, but individual departments of the Govt ... cuts here there and everywhere mean that not only pubic sector jobs go, but those who provide to the public sector as well as other sectors.

  9. #68

    Gatt's Avatar
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    A Quick glance through Wiki shows tha when Thatcher came to power in 79, she inherited a massive amount of Debt and just out of recession
    So Yes she sold off what she could, unemployment rose from 1.5, to 3.2m, but by the mid 80's economic growth was back, tax was coming down and despite a recession in the US during 89 - Britain was still "booming"
    It continued to boom with a quick-dip recession in 1990-1993

    When labour caeme to power in 97 - there was no recession or high debt... but there certainly was when they left... - more so due to Gordie...

  10. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatt View Post
    Didn't Thatcher and Co have to fix the problems made by the previous Labour Govt anyway? Ok so She sold off all our assets, but IIRC, by the end of the 80's The country was in a pretty damned good shape again..
    Oh yes - Thatcher fixed loads of problems - just ask the miners! Speak to the vast number of people in the areas where generations have never worked because of the industries she ran into the ground and/or sold off! Wasn't 1987 the year of the biggest stock market crash ever in the UK? Thatcher did what all Tories do - made sure the well off were better off and the poor were poorer!

  11. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcollings View Post
    Oh yes - Thatcher fixed loads of problems - just ask the miners! Speak to the vast number of people in the areas where generations have never worked because of the industries she ran into the ground and/or sold off! Wasn't 1987 the year of the biggest stock market crash ever in the UK? Thatcher did what all Tories do - made sure the well off were better off and the poor were poorer!
    Why do people always point out industries that were not cost effective to run as examples of Thatcher's failure? People blame her for all sorts of industries failing, when a lot of it can be traced to other groups also, such as unions (look at the car industry! some years, the staff at British plants spent more time on strike than working, not to mention the quality of the cars being produced was sub par). Sometimes you simply have to face the facts - many of the industries that died out in the UK would have died out with or without Thatcher. Globalisation has seen to that. Why would a company pay 30k a year for someone to do a job here when they can do it for a third of the price in Korea, Taiwan, China, or a long list of other countries?

    Basically what I'm saying is 'stop burying your head in the sand and realise that the issues are not this government's fault. They are the fault of the previous government for NOT fixing things, they are our own faults for accepting ridiculous policies in government because they benefited us in the short term.'

  12. #71
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    I'm afraid this thread just doesn't feel complete without any input from everyone's favourite joke & video thread posting, Tory hater.

    Where art thou Mattx? Where art thou?


    jcollings - The gap between rich and poor increased higher than ever before, under the last Labour government.

    Let's face it folks, it matters not which of the "big 3" you vote for. They are all alike.

  13. Thanks to AyatollahPies from:

    ButterflyMoon (24th March 2011)

  14. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Why do people always point out industries that were not cost effective to run as examples of Thatcher's failure?
    Because it is not and never has been true the coal industry was not cost effective!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AyatollahPies View Post
    jcollings - The gap between rich and poor increased higher than ever before, under the last Labour government.

    Let's face it folks, it matters not which of the "big 3" you vote for. They are all alike.
    I am not for a minute suggesting Labour didn't get things wrong in their time and as a socialist they were painful to watch as they abandoned all left wing policies freely!

    What I am saying is that people seem to think prior to that all was great and good - I am just pointing out the Tory government of Thatcher and Major did nothing but harm to the country.

  16. #74

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcollings View Post
    Because it is not and never has been true the coal industry was not cost effective!
    Erm. The coal industry itself started shutting pits because their subsidies couldn't justify keeping them open, let alone commercial income. How can you possibly claim that the coal industry was cost effective?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Erm. The coal industry itself started shutting pits because their subsidies couldn't justify keeping them open, let alone commercial income. How can you possibly claim that the coal industry was cost effective?!
    Because it's true. The industry needed reform and modernisation but it could have still been viable.

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