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General Chat Thread, Unfriendly Article vents at Edugeek and its members in General; Originally Posted by GrumbleDook And what a surprise ... noting else has been added ... because there was not that ...
  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    And what a surprise ... noting else has been added ... because there was not that much sensible being talked about perhaps?

    I hope some folk do take up the offer of writing for CW ... and if so, then why the heck do you not write for EG! Perhaps we need to give the blog posts of some members more of a push for folk to read ... some of the EG blogs are brillaint.
    I DO agree with you 110% with what you are saying here mate, it's something i've thought about before especially after reading some of the posts on here. If there was away we could publish some of these to such places like CW it would be great! it would not only help such magazine but would also help people notice how very clever the people within the community are!

    You've got my heads up on that one, just a matter of finding someone.. maybe PC Adviser could do a section and paste some of the blog work in.. maybe a page which has a blog post from a member in?

    James.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    And what a surprise ... noting else has been added ... because there was not that much sensible being talked about perhaps?

    I hope some folk do take up the offer of writing for CW ... and if so, then why the heck do you not write for EG! Perhaps we need to give the blog posts of some members more of a push for folk to read ... some of the EG blogs are brillaint.
    Could it be that the discussion had come to a natural end? Questioning the statments of someone who writes providing advice in a very public forum is not sensible, even if their advice could be considered questionable?

    What is this offer to write for CW, I must have missed it. I do agree however that the Edugeek blogs do seem to get very little play and that seems to be backed up by the migration of many members blogs, such as yours to external platforms.

  3. #63

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    If there is a serious offer of writing for CW then let me know and I will put you in touch with right people so you can discuss it with them. It would be a non-paying gig.

    Russ

    p.s

    This not an offer of a gig I am not sure if they want more bloggers or not but an offer to open door so you can have a conversation with CW.

    Russ

  4. #64

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Sometimes ideas can only come from someone who doesn't clealy understand them him/herself; should that mean those ideas should be kept to themselves? Definitely not - it might only take input from one other person to turn a misunderstood idea into something truely wonderful. But on the other side of the die actually arguing about something without a clear understanding will mostly lead to people debunking the person as well as/instead of the ideas. It's never that clear cut, unfortunately.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    Sometimes ideas can only come from someone who doesn't clealy understand them him/herself; should that mean those ideas should be kept to themselves? Definitely not - it might only take input from one other person to turn a misunderstood idea into something truely wonderful. But on the other side of the die actually arguing about something without a clear understanding will mostly lead to people debunking the person as well as/instead of the ideas. It's never that clear cut, unfortunately.
    I am all for that and the matters have in fact been discussed with agreement on some of the points along with disagreement and justification of that disagreement throughout this thread. I would like to discuss it with the person in question but previous attempts have failed flatly with this person on this site catogorised by a complete failure to take anyone elses opinions or views on board.

    I can see the appeal of having companion information avalible through other platforms like phones, I agree about progression of technology like Windows 7/Office 2010. I support schools with both Windows and Mac systems along with one with a linux server. It is just the way in which it is presented as the only and best way that the evil sanctomonious technitions don't want users to have rather than as an option for future and current investigation.

    There is no regard for feasibility, practicality or value and this along with pointed comments directed at certain communities is just dangerous. If this gets taken seriously by certain managment types without being questioned and consdered then it will cause damage to schools by at the very least wasting money on things that have no real usecase other than being shiny and consumery.

    If we want schools to be that way we should just leave IT up to Apples marketing department and leave them to it.

    Importantly you can only stand on the high ground until the masses have undermined it so much that the unquestionable status quo is to buy the latest phones every six months like good little consumers, binning solutions that work well for the most socially popular solution that may at its best work as well. I know this argument could be put foward for the Windows 7 debate but that is a seporate issue and more about being up to date (usually lowering matinence and issues) rather than in style.

    If you don't speak up and defend your views as to what you think (as a trained/experienced person in the field) you are to some extent accepting their views. To a certain extent you can ignore things but when they inexplicably have the weight of a computer publication behind them I think that the point does need to be contested.

    In a closing lighter note I will add an XKCD comic that I think is fitting (including the caption):
    What do you want me to do?  LEAVE?  Then they'll keep being wrong!

    xkcd: Duty Calls
    Last edited by SYNACK; 22nd February 2011 at 11:38 AM.

  6. 3 Thanks to SYNACK:

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  7. #66

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    Ah, XKCD Between that and The Register's BOFH, I've always thought the Internet would be a much better place.

  8. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    Ah, XKCD Between that and The Register's BOFH, I've always thought the Internet would be a much better place.
    Were the BOFH real, the Internet would be a much quieter place if nothing else.

  9. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesb View Post
    Were the BOFH real, the Internet would be a much quieter place if nothing else.
    The BOfH is real ... and the internet would be a far worse place without him.

  10. #69

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    There is no regard for feasibility, practicality or value
    Plus ca change.. fortunately manglement in this country appears to be acquiring new skills in those areas courtesy of the ICT budget shenanigans and it will take someone really dim and blinkered to disregard them.

    when they inexplicably have the weight of a computer publication behind them
    What weight? Perhaps this is a net generational thing, but I thought half the point of the Internet was you can go out and get raw data to use for your very own conclusions and bypass all that spin, shallowness, idiocy. I might trust some writers here and there, but never a publication.

  11. #70

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    Am I an Edugeek member?
    Yes

    Do we use Windows XP at our school?
    Yes

    Why?
    Most of the software that is sold to the education market is (a) poorly written and (b) written only for the Windows platform, well about 90% is. Also, we can’t afford the yearly subscription Microsoft offers (come on EES) and so buy licences along with computers as and when we can. Our school favours the more balanced approach to budget allocation. What’s the point of having top of the range IT when the roof leaks?

    I resent the implication that IT support staff are holding back the progress of IT use in schools. We as a school cannot keep up with the Jones’ and buy iPads, iPhones or whatever the latest gadget is. We are also in a low income earning area and I think 70% of our students are on free school meals, so their families cannot afford to keep up either.

    Spannerman may have had a bad experience when it comes to IT support in a school. There are bad IT people just like there are people who can give a bad name to any profession.

    Or maybe this person is just an idiot whose technician wouldn’t let them install Championship Manager on their work laptop, sorry, restricted their computing environment to a point where they could not be productive as an educator.

    Either way this narcissistic individual has got what they wanted, a reaction.

  12. Thanks to jcs808 from:

    SimpleSi (22nd February 2011)

  13. #71


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    Quote Originally Posted by jcs808 View Post
    I resent the implication that IT support staff are holding back the progress of IT use in schools. We as a school cannot keep up with the Jones’ and buy iPads, iPhones or whatever the latest gadget is. We are also in a low income earning area and I think 70% of our students are on free school meals, so their families cannot afford to keep up either.
    It's not like that in every school. We get a proportion of students who bring in ipads and various 'gimmicks' that they want to work with, and we help them. As far as I'm concerned it is helping them with their education - which is why I'm here.
    I'd rather come up with solutions than be a barrier. I try and come up with solutions to what the teachers ask me, clearly I'm not going to please everyone eveytime but I managed to get properly slated here for my views (I wasn't defending John Spencers attack on edugeek, just some of his opinions) - afterall we are successfully running a network where we have a mixed economy of devices (and yes, flash, sims etc does work on iphones via a citrix web client)

  14. 2 Thanks to CyberNerd:

    GrumbleDook (23rd February 2011), jcollings (23rd February 2011)

  15. #72

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    So ... high percentage of free school meals? How many of your students applied for and received a device via the Computers for Pupils scheme? When was the last time your school did a survey of students / pupils to find out what they had at home and what sort of mobile phone they had? It any of this ever taken into account when planning what can be done with tech and kids?

    I'm not even saying it is the role of each and every member to look at this, because for a good number it either isn't in your job description (if you have one ... but that is another much covered thread) or it is in the control of others in the school who do not include you in the planning / discussions. The bit where I agree with John is that in many schools the IT Team are all about limiting choice rather than creating it. Sometimes it is for good reasons ... but for a good amount it is about power and control.

    If I had the cash to go and do the research I would be looking to see if there is any correlation between those who fight to protect things and those who have SLT / teachers who consistently fail to abide by rules / good practices. From anecdotal evidence it would seem to be that there could be quite a strong one.

    I know I still have a lengthy post to do about my previous rant on this ... and I will get on to it, but the same attack is being made on John, except it was getting darned personal and making some hasty assumptions because of bad experiences some members may have had perhaps ...

  16. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Could it be that the discussion had come to a natural end? Questioning the statments of someone who writes providing advice in a very public forum is not sensible, even if their advice could be considered questionable?
    I'm a bit lost here ... are you saying that just because the advice is public we should not question it? I may have read what you put wrongly and apologies if this is the case.

    Surely if anyone believes the advice is questionable then they should critique the advice, make better proposals and then show that the new proposals is better advice? My point was that people were slagging off John in a rather unprofessional way ... it goes back to the old techniques in the civil service ... if you cannot discredit the advice then you discredit the man ... a very low thing to do.

  17. #74


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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post


    If I had the cash to go and do the research I would be looking to see if there is any correlation between those who fight to protect things and those who have SLT / teachers who consistently fail to abide by rules / good practices. From anecdotal evidence it would seem to be that there could be quite a strong one.
    sounds like the beginnings of a Ph.D thesis

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    On the point of the 'cloud' and SPoF.

    Surely the SPoF exists in the type of connection to an upstream service provider ie whether the money has been spent to get the SLA's and redundancy rather than in the SaaS being provided, where millions could have been spent to get five 9's availability.

    How many large education institutions have a fully hosted email solution for students running into the 10's of k's, how many large software companies provide a hosted-only system that allows company A to do business with it's customers or customer B.

    How many service providers provide large capacity virtual contact centers where there is no local telephony equipment apart from IP handsets and possibly a connection back to a legacy PBX or some sort of survivability via minimal PSTN connectivity.

    I'm not saying it's entirely bulletproof or that you can 'cloud' every app/service your users want to use, and i'm not expert on the information security issues, but if you make the investment in the required redunancy at the weakest link, i can't see any reason why an entity can't conduct a lot of it's operations through hosted/cloud services. IT's already being done i thought where the economies just can't be made in setting up 'on-premise' services.
    Last edited by torledo; 23rd February 2011 at 06:52 AM.

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