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General Chat Thread, Why use live@edu or Google Apps for Education- discuss in General; I can see that having someone else looking after email would be a great time/resource saver for ypu big boys ...
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    SimpleSi's Avatar
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    Why use live@edu or Google Apps for Education- discuss

    I can see that having someone else looking after email would be a great time/resource saver for ypu big boys and girls.

    But as a Lancs primary with email hosted by the county ICT team, webspace supplied with PHP/MySQL and Moodle provided by CLEO what would be the practical benefits of using these services?

    regards
    Simon

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    FN-GM's Avatar
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    We have ours hosted by capta now as apart of BSF but we did have it.

    I like it becuase:

    • Is free, no need to pay for:
      - Server Hardware
      - OS Licence
      - Exchange
      - Public IP Address
      - Backups
      - UPS and Electricity
      - Anti Spam Software
    • Little management & maintance needed from Techies
    • On a reliable conenction
    • Lots of storage
    • With Google apps webmail is not 'cut down' when you use anything other an IE like it is in OWA 2007
    • Could be seen as more 'green'
    • Removes possible concerns regarding network security
    Last edited by FN-GM; 17th February 2011 at 09:25 AM. Reason: Typo

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    Mr.Ben's Avatar
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    It depends what the organisation is like.

    I have just completed moving my staff to Live@Edu, from RMEasymail and (for senior staff only) a LEA provided exchange address.

    It offers to Staff - the ability to share calendars, inboxes, contacts, create groups of contacts, and add external contacts to our new Global address list. All things that could not be done with Easymail. Easymail calendars are rubbish I am afraid.

    It offers our senior staff an easier way of communicating with our staff - they had most of the features above previously, but only between themselves.

    We will also be using it to book resources that are 'Off Timetable' - Our conference rooms - Resource accounts and calendars can be created for this purpose.

    As a small school with lots of staff and services that we provide to other schools it will be very useful.
    Last edited by Mr.Ben; 17th February 2011 at 10:05 AM.

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    Both give children access to office apps for free from home.

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    MK-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edutech4schools View Post
    Both give children access to office apps for free from home.
    are these office apps compatible with MS Office (apologies, i've never used either), or will the kids then be working on a doc at home that won't open or needs more software installed at school?

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    AngryTechnician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    are these office apps compatible with MS Office (apologies, i've never used either), or will the kids then be working on a doc at home that won't open or needs more software installed at school?
    SkyDrive creates Office documents by default, and Google Docs can save into Office formats with ease. Both have plugins available to integrate open/save in the Office desktop applications (in 2010, open/save to SkyDrive is built in).

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    SimpleSi's Avatar
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    Both give children access to office apps for free from home.
    OpenOffice does that
    (And as every teacher believes that all computers come with MS Office on them... )

    My moodle lets them download/upload from home (but needs to teacher to set up a course for pupils to do the uploading/downloading so a lot less effort to use cloud apps)

    And only Y5/6 really use office type apps so less pupils benefit.

    [edit]Didn't see above post[/edit]
    And of course the downside that if docs are in the cloud - there's no backup available in school when our dns server/internet connection/Google goes down (until someone comes up a free cloud-local file sync service)

    But a good point

    Si

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    gshaw's Avatar
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    It's an added extra to allow students to communicate and create \ edit work wherever they are with collaboration etc built in. Chances are you'll be able to give more space and be more flexible than a County IT system as well.

    Either Live@Edu or Google come with blocks for Moodle that display email, very handy as students will see any messages in a single portal rather than logging into multiple places. There are a few things to watch out for when setting up the plugin but Google around and you'll find out all you need to know

    If you use Google Apps and Moodle 2.0 you can seamlessly pull files into Moodle e.g. create a document in Google Docs then hand it in to an assignment activity in Moodle. Microsoft don't seem to be doing this at present but I live in hope that someone might make a plugin at some point.

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    AngryTechnician (17th February 2011)

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    are these office apps compatible with MS Office (apologies, i've never used either), or will the kids then be working on a doc at home that won't open or needs more software installed at school?
    Why not have a play, both are free.

    TBH after I have 100% decided on a platform It will completely replace current system (desktop office) so all typing and saving is done in the cloud. I might have a few stations around that can pull local copies of backed up files just encase our internet goes down so staff can still work.

    And of course the downside that if docs are in the cloud - there's no backup available in school when our dns server/internet connection/Google goes down (until someone comes up a free cloud-local file sync service)
    Its free for each user to backup their own work. Not perfect but hay ho.

    How much is it for the Google2Server sync?

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Quick comment about free ... neither are free, they just do not have license costs. They do require time to set up, support and maintain. You should be looking how this compares with your existing provision to see if there is any change now and in the future.

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    SimpleSi (17th February 2011)

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    Check carefully where the data is stored with MS its in the EU (Dublin and Amsterdam), I could never get Google to give me a straight answer about this. This may affect how you considerr them in light of Data Protection.

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    AngryTechnician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nadeem View Post
    Check carefully where the data is stored with MS its in the EU (Dublin and Amsterdam), I could never get Google to give me a straight answer about this. This may affect how you considerr them in light of Data Protection.
    Google are compliant with US Safe Harbor regulations on data protection, which is a legal framework between the US and EU allowing companies to store data in the US while still complying with EU data protection laws. Therefore, neither they nor you are breaking the Data Protection Act by storing data on Google's servers, even if they are not in the EU.

    Source: Google Apps

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    GrumbleDook (17th February 2011)

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    +1 on that

    When I presented to SLT and teaching staff on the benefits of Moodle I never mentioned the word 'free'. Well except when I said Moodle was free to download.

    It costs my college in the time I spent config'ing and setting up and the time I currently spend developing it. I must admit technical support is minimal as I spent ages last summer setting everything up and checking / testing / tweaking everything - nothing has gone wrong with it yet. A ball park figure for me would be 3 months work and therefor wage for the total project.


    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    Quick comment about free ... neither are free, they just do not have license costs. They do require time to set up, support and maintain. You should be looking how this compares with your existing provision to see if there is any change now and in the future.

  17. Thanks to KarlGoddard from:

    GrumbleDook (17th February 2011)

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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlGoddard View Post
    It costs my college in the time I spent config'ing and setting up and the time I currently spend developing it. I must admit technical support is minimal as I spent ages last summer setting everything up and checking / testing / tweaking everything - nothing has gone wrong with it yet. A ball park figure for me would be 3 months work and therefor wage for the total project.
    You make it sound like we'd get free support and top class engineers come in and configure something that we paid a license fee for. I don't remember MS sending people down to build our exchange servers when we had them... Sure add in setup costs. I've run exchange, Zimbra and older Unix mailservers and I can honestly say that Google Docs is easier to set up than any of them, and requires FAR less maintenance. live@edu probably is as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryTechnician View Post
    Google are compliant with US Safe Harbor regulations on data protection, which is a legal framework between the US and EU allowing companies to store data in the US while still complying with EU data protection laws. Therefore, neither they nor you are breaking the Data Protection Act by storing data on Google's servers, even if they are not in the EU.

    Source: Google Apps
    I didn't say anything about the Data Protection *Act* - there are plenty of legal frameworks between the USA and UK/EU that aren't necessarily equal. For example there was huge debate recently with the HE community about a similar situtation whereby the legal advice was that for the UK side of the operation that irregardless of Safe Harbor had to be hosted on UK/EU servers. I was talking about Data Protection in general - for example as part of the the thinking I did about moving some email to Live@edu or Google was the issue of data not being on our servers at all.

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