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General Chat Thread, The TUC March for the Alternative - Saturday 26th March 2011 in General; LONDON MARCH 26/03/2011 This is your opportunity to voice your concerns over the funding cuts. Government spending cuts will damage ...
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    tech_guy's Avatar
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    The TUC March for the Alternative - Saturday 26th March 2011

    LONDON MARCH 26/03/2011

    This is your opportunity to voice your concerns over the funding cuts.

    Government spending cuts will damage public services and put more than a million out of work. They will hit the vulnerable, damage communities and undermine much of what holds us together as a society.

    Ministers say there is no alternative.

    But both of the government's two key decisions are political choices, not economic necessity.
    Eliminating the deficit in just four years is a savage timetable that does not give economic growth the opportunity to raise the nationís tax take. Indeed the deep cuts promised will depress the economy making deeper cuts necessary to meet this timetable.
    Raising four pounds through cuts for every pound raised through tax Ė and doing most of this through a rise in VAT that hits the poor and those on middle income the most Ė is deeply unfair. The recession was made in the finance sector, yet banks and those now enjoying gigantic bonuses once again, are not being asked to make a fair contribution.

    Yet none of these policies were put to the British people at the election, indeed we were told that there was no need for cuts in front-line services.

    People round the country are already campaigning against these deep, rapid cuts. Students have shown their opposition to cuts, the ends of EMAs and increases in fees. Parents and teachers have opposed cuts in school building. School sport, libraries and public woodlands all now have strong defenders. Few towns now donít have their own campaign group.

    The TUCís March for the Alternative has two key aims.
    First we want to give a national voice to all those affected by the cuts.
    This will be a huge event that in its breadth and support shows just how much opposition there is to the governmentís programme. It will bring together public service workers and those who depend on good public services. Those involved in national campaigns, and those defending what is special in their own community.
    Second we want to show that people reject the argument that there is no alternative.
    Of course the recession did damage to our economy. But these deep rapid cuts are not the best way to solve our problems, and may well make them worse.

    That is why it is the March for the Alternative Ė an alternative in which rich individuals and big companies have to pay all their tax, that the banks pay a Robin Hood tax and on in which we strain every sinew to create jobs and boost the sustainable economic growth that will generate the prosperity which is the only long term way to close the deficit and reduce the nationís debt.

    If your are in a union there may well be places left on coaches and minibuses down to the event.

    Please make an effort to attend as we can't let the ConDem Gov't rape this country.

    LINKS:

    March For the Alternative: Jobs, Growth, Justice | 26 March 2011: March and rally against the cuts

    A Million Voices for Public Services - Home | March 26: March for public services

    TUC national demonstration against the cuts

    TUC National Demonstration Against Cuts | 26 March | Coalition of Resistance Against Cuts & Privatisation

    NUT : National Union of Teachers - The largest fully qualified primary and secondary education union | Our aim: one union for all teachers.

    Travel details released for 26 March

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    Dos_Box's Avatar
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    I hate to play devils advocate here, but surely the cuts are a given becuase the areas being 'cut' are those in which tax money is spent. This money is then going to be used to pay of the HUGE mountain of debt racked up by the previous govt, which stangely enough the TUC had no qualms about it doing. The tax generating areas i.e. the private sector (very little of the public sector actually generates any cash whatsoever) is still as it was and left to actually bring in the money that the country relies on whilst some areas of the public sector carry on being 'slef-licking-lollipops'. however, I do draw the line at how local authorities manage these cuts, and I do hope a great deal of tought goes into the what, where and when of them, although my experience of working in local govt does not fill me full of hope.

  3. Thanks to Dos_Box from:

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    tech_guy's Avatar
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    The government missed out on what I call a 'JFK' moment - 'ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country' - they could have called for increased productivity and public support to address the deficit, instead they chose to alienate us all by beating us over the head with cuts and raised taxes. I hope the 26th proves to be a day to remember.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_guy View Post
    The government missed out on what I call a 'JFK' moment - 'ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country' - they could have called for increased productivity and public support to address the deficit.
    Thing is though this isn't the 60s. The general public now feels more self-centred and much less patriotic than in previous decades. The Government asking the country to increase productivity? What you mean you'd like me to type faster? Ask bin men to run around the streets?

    The decifit has to be reduced and of course the public sector is going to be highly targeted, its where a large proportion of the budget goes. At least in education we have a better chance of weathering the storm than other public sector workers.

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    Dos_Box's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_guy View Post
    The government missed out on what I call a 'JFK' moment - 'ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country' - they could have called for increased productivity and public support to address the deficit, instead they chose to alienate us all by beating us over the head with cuts and raised taxes. I hope the 26th proves to be a day to remember.
    It doesn't work like that. No matter how hard the public sector work, they don't generate income for the UK!! It's about money, and to be blunt, there isn't any. At all. It's all gone and the amount we pay per day in interest on the loans the previous govt took out to pay for the party everyones been enjoying for the past 13 years is £40 billion. Per annum!!!! That's over a million pounds a day interest. The previous govt borrowed $450 million a day just to keep the UK runnning as they realised teh party was over. I'll refrane from using such emotive terms as 'rape' instead I'll use real world ones such as incompetance and 'scortched earth' to describe the management of this countries wealth that has got us into this mess.

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    tech_guy's Avatar
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    I'm not referring to just the public sector, I'm talking about the UK as a whole.

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    I can fix the problem very easily with 4 words:

    Levy The banks More


    The piddly amount of 2.5 billion that Toff Osborne was just to please them as the majority of bankers actually fund the Tory party and course he who pays the piper.....
    The British tax payer bailed the banks out when they cocked up, we own the banks [ not all ] but most of them - bankers bonuses are still ripe whilst the government make cuts which effect all of us but not the banks or bankers. Levy the banks 10 billion [ they have it ] - pump that money back into the economy, if we need more, levy the banks again, and again and again. Remember we own the banks, it was their fault, they created the problem - let them pay.

    Hillingdon Cllrs in total earn in their 'allowance' 1 million pounds a year. They are making cuts in the Education and Social Services departments which will cripple them. But hey, don't worry - whilst children are suffering and getting a pi55 poor education - our local Cllrs can sit down and enjoy earning their 'allowance'
    Staff won't have a job and will end up on the social and their children will suffer and this generates a knock on effect. But hey, don't worry - the Cllrs are still earning their allowance whilst happily bringing the axe down on essential services for the borough. I've heard it's all part of Dave's Big Society !!
    This is happening [ with worse case examples ] all over the country - their are people earning [ I would actually call it stealing ] money DOING NOTHING than making poor decisions and effecting people's lives by bringing the axe down on departments.
    Wow - what a great 'Big Society' Dave - a society where there are millions without jobs, without food, without a decent education, without decent transport - but don't worry Dave because you can invite all your rich Tory funding bank buddies into your 'Big Society'
    Last edited by mattx; 13th February 2011 at 12:21 AM.

  9. 2 Thanks to mattx:

    ButterflyMoon (22nd March 2011), SteveT (23rd March 2011)

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    i disagree politically that there should be no real terms cuts in some areas of govt. spending.

    what i don't like is the cack-handed way in which the cuts have been allocated, with more money in some areas already flush with cash and 20% or more real cuts in areas already struggling to provide adequate service.

    the student fees decision is another example of this logic defying, cack-handed thinking. i'm not in favour of ditching the current system in favour of something that won't apply to welsh and scottish students for example. if those administrations can find the money to not levy increased fees, why can't westminster ?

    but equally, you can't avoid the redundancies and cuts in budgets and just focus instead on the easy stuff like not having a deficit reduction target or scrapping trident. And yes, as much as big finance can be squeezed a bit more, raising taxes on them alone is like trying to pretend their isn't a problem with public spending.
    Last edited by torledo; 13th February 2011 at 12:19 AM.

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    The problem there is that banking is one of the mainstays of the UK economy. We don't have any heavy industry, manufacturing or textiles industires anymore, and the banks have already threatened to leave and 'relocate' if HMG upsets them too much. Yes we bailed the banks out, but I for one would like to see the deal teh last govt brokered with them as it seems as though we (as a country) didn't get very much out of it in teh way of control over the banks themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    The problem there is that banking is one of the mainstays of the UK economy. We don't have any heavy industry, manufacturing or textiles industires anymore, and the banks have already threatened to leave and 'relocate' if HMG upsets them too much. Yes we bailed the banks out, but I for one would like to see the deal teh last govt brokered with them as it seems as though we (as a country) didn't get very much out of it in teh way of control over the banks themselves.
    the last time i checked i think we were no.5 in the world in manufacturing. It's probably a different type of manufacturing to the heavy industry we've lost, but it's a myth that we don't make stuff anymore. We're not as reliant on a grossly overweight financial sector because investment can always be boosted in other sectors, people can be employed to do other stuff like widen the M25 or build an olympic village or work in the third sector rather than devise and sell financial products.
    although with the current strategy of an export-led recovery, our financial services export market is a sizeable contributor to the export 'boom'.

    the irony of government 'deals' with banks, is that involves increased lending, when apparently lending was the problem to begin with back in 07/08. What short memories people have.

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    The tax generating areas i.e. the private sector
    **Some** of it.. as in the bit that aren't: a) significantly dodging tax, b) secondary public sector (doing quite nicely thanks, providing services to the public sector).

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    **Some** of it.. as in the bit that aren't: a) significantly dodging tax, b) secondary public sector (doing quite nicely thanks, providing services to the public sector).
    in the private sector that just leaves the banks that aren't a) or b). ;0)

    although given how much funding of PFI (secondary public sector) they've been doing, they get paid out in full from the public purse eventually.

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    CAM
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    the last time i checked i think we were no.5 in the world in manufacturing. It's probably a different type of manufacturing to the heavy industry we've lost, but it's a myth that we don't make stuff anymore. We're not as reliant on a grossly overweight financial sector because investment can always be boosted in other sectors, people can be employed to do other stuff like widen the M25 or build an olympic village or work in the third sector rather than devise and sell financial products.
    although with the current strategy of an export-led recovery, our financial services export market is a sizeable contributor to the export 'boom'.

    the irony of government 'deals' with banks, is that involves increased lending, when apparently lending was the problem to begin with back in 07/08. What short memories people have.
    But where will the money to widen the M25 come from? That sends us round in circles back to needing to cut money to stop the debt.

    EDIT - Reading their transport recommendation, they are telling people to use Blackfriars rail station. Thameslink project says otherwise.
    Last edited by CAM; 13th February 2011 at 12:57 PM.

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    Kick everyone off benefits then change it so you can only get benefit if you are physically incapable of going to work.
    Suffering for Lazyitis should no longer qualify for benefits..

    After a close friend got thrown off despite having a serious medical condition, I now have little faith in the system and will no longer tolerate people "scrounging" and having 50"+ Plasma TV's with surround sound and XBOX's in every sodding room, along with their flash BMWs, Merc's or Lexus's and countless foreign holidays..

    /RANT

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAM View Post
    But where will the money to widen the M25 come from? That sends us round in circles back to needing to cut money to stop the debt.
    wherever the money normally comes from for funding such projects. Spending on needed infrastructure increases the deficit only where there isn't an increase in tax revenues, or where you can't make cuts elsewhere to fund the increased investment.
    So you see there's two ways of looking at the deficit and growth depending on your political view point. You can either see it as a need to spend more or a need to tax a little less. Those objecting to the cuts seem to want both increased spending AND lower taxes [ie reversing the VAT rise]. Sounds a bit like having your cake and eating it, or if your Ed Balls trying to be all things to all people.

    The national debt will increase come what may because it's the accumilation of money issued by the government to match the 'surplus' of public spending. The government doesn't start missing interest payments or anything like that.

    The debt interest i don't see as any more troubling than anything else the government incurs a cost in supporting [ie a large number of non-jobs in the public sector created under the last government or supporting a vast welfare state], the interest payments on that debt after all equate to income for the bondholders. Whether the government employs fewer people, or stops issuing debt...it all equates to the same thing, less in the way of income streams for those groups.
    Last edited by torledo; 13th February 2011 at 01:47 PM.

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