mac_shinobi (19th January 2011)
In reply to those wondering if Macs are better at design than PCs.
It's a myth, my friend runs his own design agency, him on his pc and his wife as project manager. He made an absolutely obscene amount of money last year and will make even more this year. He never has and will never touch a Mac (his words not mine). No he doesn't do much video editing, but lots of 3d and web.
Last edited by difinity; 18th January 2011 at 02:39 PM.
This thread is getting derailed badly, I may clear all these rep posts out tbh.
Regarding rep, its all logged and if your seen to be abusing it or putting nasty comments your ability to give rep will be removed, period!
For those rep hunters, its only rep, it really REALLY doesnt matter much if you get a little negative from time to time, every thanked post gives you positive rep so it usually always balances out.
nephilim (18th January 2011)
This is now the third time I've tried to post in this thread! I keep on posting this huge long reply, the browser refreshes itself and boom, post gone.
It sounds trite but I find using OS X is so much more... pleasant than using Windows. This feeling was amplified quite a lot after six months of using Vista. It feels a lot faster than Windows. I find the UI is nicer looking and more logically laid out. I like the level of integration between all the Apple apps. The built in applications such as Mail.app and Calendar are actually useful. The iLife suite is a nice bonus and I found iPhoto to be an absolute revelation although if you don't take many photos I suppose that's moot. GUI elements such as Exposť and Quick Look make navigating and managing your stuff a lot easier. iTunes and Quicktime even make sense on the platform. The UI in general is very polished and it's clear that a lot of thought has gone into it. Time machine makes backing up to disk very easy and while Windows has the same functionality built into it with Shadow Volume Copies, the UI in Time Machine makes life a lot easier.
In terms of hardware, I was also pretty pleased. At first I was a bit put out by the graphics cards used by Apple but by that point the amount of time I spent playing games was minimal I decided it wasn't a huge issue any more. The iMac was compact, almost silent and took up a lot less room on the desk than my PC did. It was more or less the same in terms of hardware spec as my old PC too.
I won't pretend that it's a perfect platform. It isn't by any stretch of the imagination. I find the Finder file manager to be pretty poor. Inbuilt codec support is pretty poor and it's not the easiest thing in the world to extend although Perian does a good job there. The amount of audio and video containers that iTunes supports is pitiful. It will support any codec that's registered with Quicktime but come on, MP4, M4V, MP3 and AAC only Apple? That's ludicrous. There was a pretty steep learning curve coming from Windows and it took a long time to get used to the differences in UI. Expandability of the machine is obviously limited. The only Apple sanctioned upgrade is the RAM which I maxed out although I did also upgrade the hard drive in there after a couple of years too. There's no denying that the Mac Pro is a bloody expensive platform, albeit comparable in price to the Dell Precision and HP Z series lines. OEM upgrades are stupidly expensive in all of their lines, you'd be certifiably mad if you bought any of them! But the same could be said about Dell and HP too, albeit not to the same extent. And while we're on hardware, the input peripherals that Apple provide are awful. I gave up with them pretty much immediately and stuck with the Microsoft ones that I've been using for years. The only decent input peripheral that Apple have made recently is the Magic Touchpad, that thing is great!
That said, I think that some of the iMac line is relatively good value, at least with the educational discount. Taking for example the base Quad Core 27" iMac, that costs £1481.92 with the 12% educational discount. Taking into account the 2560x1440 IPS screen which would cost in the region of £850 if you bought it separately, you're looking at around £630 for the rest of the hardware. A Dell Inspiron 580 with Windows 7 Pro costs £604, that has more or less the same spec as the iMac albeit a bit more RAM and a weaker graphics card. Plus you'd have to buy speakers, webcam and microphone if you wanted identical functionality. Admittedly you don't need an educational discount to get that price but being as we're all educators here, who cares about that?
The Genius bar is probably worth a mention too. It's nice to be able to take your computer or iDevice into an Apple store and get it checked over if you think there's something wrong with it. You can't do that with a Dell, you'd either have to take it to another shop who would probably charge you for looking at it or phone the technical support line and we all know what a crapshoot that can be! With a BYOC of course, you're on your own. Not a problem for some but even when it isn't, it's good to have the safety net!
It's been mentioned briefly on this thread already but I'll mention it too. Macs hold their value remarkably well. A couple of months ago, I sold the iMac that I bought three years ago. I paid about £950 for it I think. It sold on eBay for £600 and looking around eBay, that seems to be a fairly typical price for the spec! Whereas you'd have trouble giving away a three year old Dell let alone selling it for 2/3rds of its original price!
So finally (Hurray!), if you were ask me why I use a Mac instead of buying an OEM Windows PC or a using a BYOC I think the answer would be simply this: Because I like them. I like the OS, I like the software, I like the hardware, I like the integration between the OS, software and hardware and I like the support. I think that all of these things are worth the price that I paid for them. But hey, this is my opinion. You might agree. You might think that this post is the biggest load of bovine excrement you have ever read. That's your right and your privilege. Frankly, I don't care one way or the other. What bothers me is how people on both sides of the fence get so, I don't know, militant about the whole Mac vs PC argument. For christ's sake, they're computers. They're tools. Some people like one type of tool, other people like others. Arguing over which is better is like arguing over whether serrated knifes are better than non serrated knifes, i.e. downright stupid.
Last edited by Norphy; 18th January 2011 at 11:50 PM.
@ Norphy - ref supported playback I know you mentioned perian which I already have and use and also that these media players do not add more support to quicktime but VLC and MPlayer are pretty darned good on OS X which I use both - Also with the macs on Intel type hardware as apposed to PPC ie G4 / G5 etc you can virtualise ie VMWare / Parallels so if there is still windows software that you want to use then this is still not really an issue.
Ref the 3D material / video editing / creation on macs - whether or not you can do this on a normal PC ( non mac ) am not sure but either way I honestly don't know any users yet ( as this could change , might get a reply from this ) that go home and create 3D footage / edit 3D footage etc ??
So don't see this as an issue not being able to do this on the mac platform - additionaly I don't own any 3D equipment ie projector / TV etc so again still not an issue for me.
Have to agree with Norphy on this as it all adds up so well ref the OS, hardware, support , genius bar / apple care etc etc that at least myself from experience have really enjoyed it - I do understand that apple are behind on a number of things ie graphics cards, memory prices being higher ( RAM, Hard drives ) and also higher on graphics card prices as you can compare the same / similar graphics card models and the mac version will be a lot higher in cost then the equivelant PC version but obviously the mac ones have a specific firmware on them to get them to work with the mac ( obviously ).
Last edited by mac_shinobi; 19th January 2011 at 07:27 AM.
The 3D I was talking about was more 3D rendering, stuff like Maya that is used to generate the 3D modeling and animation stuff that is used in movies. The main platforms are really Windows and Linux for that kind of stuff most of it runs slow is not compatible or bombs out from all reports.
@Arthur, great research
Although are you not paying for the tag "HP", what if you did a comparison with some one like NovaTech. That does seem a high price for a PC and even alienware doesnt get that high unless its a laptop. Maybe I just don't go completely all out on the spending.
I am not afraid to admit MACs are more reliable and do turn on and away you go very quickly (almost instant) compared to a PC. Then on the other hand if we all switched over to MACs exactly how long till we have serious problems occuring with them?
Comparing to our MACs we have had for a year and 5 months and PCs we have had for that length of time, we have had same amount of issues really. The PCs we purchased last year are for basic use "Internet, Office" and they have been far more reliable then other PCs which have a load of things installed and have fancy cards in them.
Personally I just wouldnt spend so much on a PC let alone a MAC, when I go home I dont want to worry about dual boot, I want to turn on and everything be able to work that I ever need to install.
Work wise I have yet to see the benefit except the fact that its a turn on and get on with it. In fact some of our staff who are in control of the MACs like that little bit of power and the people who seem to like MACs are not usually IT people. If I am wrong then so be it but that is my experience but I am only 27.
Arthur, what was in the picture is true, Dell, HP etc do not charge $700 for a 400mhz upgrade, whereas apple do.
Also in your picture, the warranties arent the same, for Apple to do 3 year on site warranty, you would need to add another couple hundred!
Apparently the Apple store near me was broken into last night and £30,000 worth of equipment stolen.
Police have said they are confident they will recover both laptops though...........
WHAT??!!?? you know you laughed so shut up!!!!
@mthomas - the point is, the Mac Pro is not a cheap PC. It is a high end workstation, as is the Z600. A company like Novatech don't make such a system, and a comparison with a homebuild is not a fair one.
Also, you and others seem quite dismissive of the whole 'turn on and go' thing. This is a hugely important factor to normal home users. Why do you think Linux has had so much trouble getting into the home market? Up until recently, it was 'install, spend 7 hours tweaking text files in a console, and go'. Windows was 'receive computer, follow initial setup instructions, notice that 40% of your processing power is being taken up by junk software, do windows updates 3 times, as each set requires a reboot, and go' until Vista/7 came out.
Having a system so integrated and smooth that it just does things for you is what consumers want, even if they have to pay more for it. As I said in a blog post ages ago - we live in the 'Lazy age'. Convenience is at the top of the pile.
blender.org - Mac OS X
I don't do much of that sort of thing either so at least to me - not an issue but there are work arounds ie using boot camp ( using windows on bare metal ) as the macs although possibly slightly slower hardware can still run directly on windows, also VM's as the vm software is getting better and more efficient , I mean they can play 3D games a lot better in a Vm then they used to be able to. Vmware fusion / parallels etc
I literally come home, press the power button, wait about 20 seconds or so and im at the logon screen and it only takes about 10 seconds to load fully and Im away with loading my apps whether it be firefox / safari or whatever I want to do. Updates ( software updater ) for the most part 90% of the time is install everything, if a reboot is required it advises you, after the reboot its done, no more updates, unless you are doing a complete re install as sometimes with iTunes you run an update to get to the next version and there will be another update to get it from version y to version y.z.x but again this isn't very often as this tends to get intergrated into one update as part of say OS X update 10.X.Z
I don't bother running AV / Anti malware very often as I used to and it didn't make any difference aside from obviously it was wasting resources that I could use. I do run a ClamXav now and again but thats it.
Firewall is already enabled and running and I have all the options to run everything in secure memory etc, plus am behind a router which has an SPI firewall so am fairly safe - not impossible to hack I wouldn't of thought but either way good enough for me.
Last edited by mac_shinobi; 19th January 2011 at 08:38 AM.
Precision T7500 costs £241 ($386.23) A 660MHz upgrade costs £671 ($1,075.34)!
Apple's website seems to imply you get that as standard with AppleCare (although I doubt it is NBD).Also in your picture, the warranties arent the same, for Apple to do 3 year on site warranty, you would need to add another couple hundred!
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