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General Chat Thread, Apple: Love it or hate it. in General; Originally Posted by localzuk The engine is a comparison of an off the shelf component. ie. the engine in a ...
  1. #16
    Fatmas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    The engine is a comparison of an off the shelf component. ie. the engine in a Lotus Elise makes one of the most desirable sports cars on the market, with superb handling, excellent build quality and great looks. The same engine in a Rover 45 makes a middle of the pack, boring, car.
    I understand the reference but it could be expanded to say that the reason the lotus is desirable is not the engine but the aesthetics and the chassis. The same engine delivers a better performing car because the weight is greatly reduced because of size and lack of features.

    They also cost a lot more than a Rover 45 but I would have the Lotus every time (if I could afford it!).

    Apple's design and the aesthetics of their systems are what sell a large portion of them I would say.

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    Unfortunately you can flip that around....

    You can buy a car that on the outside looks like a top notch car, but in reality you can buy the same thing underneath from another manufacturer, for half the price, and live with the fact that your dashboard is made out of actual plastic rather than plastic made out to look like wood.

    Skoda and VW are getting a little like this, except skoda still cut corners in other places than aesthetics. Same chassis and insides, different skin and shinier bits attached to it.

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    Hmmm this is a hard one, I had a Mac mini for a while and it was very very nice, though it only cost me 300 so no where near the costings of the high-end Macs. For the hardware I couldn't believe how fast it was, the loading times were amazing for something that had such little power, in the end I sold it as I didn't use it as much as I could of, but sometimes I miss it, as I found it was the missing link between Windows and Linux....easy to use but stable.

    Saying that if we take out the OS and Software part of things I would go with a PC, the reason being I know I can build a PC from scratch for a tiny price and much faster system, but that is only any good for us tinkers and not your average person.

    But to be honest, in an ideal world, if it worked I would go for a PC running Apple OS, sounds crazy but I would be very happy with that setup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    the engine in a Lotus Elise makes one of the most desirable sports cars on the market
    Most desirable sports car on the market?! Sheeeesh, you ought to get out more localzuk! I can think of 100 cars I'd have before the Elise, and a Rover might indeed be one of them!

  6. #20

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hightower View Post
    Most desirable sports car on the market?! Sheeeesh, you ought to get out more localzuk! I can think of 100 cars I'd have before the Elise, and a Rover might indeed be one of them!
    One of... And if you desire a Rover, you are clinically insane.

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    painejake's Avatar
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    Mac Mini was the best computer purchase I made. As was my iPhone. Hell I'll admit it I'm a massive Apple fanboy.

    My Mac Mini still starts faster than a top spec i7 rig though!

    What linuxgirlie said summed it up really. For me it is the missing link between Windows and Linux.

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    In general i dislike some of apple's practices. If i want to access the hard drive of the thing i've paid for, I should be able to do so. When I get an update, I want to update what I need to, not reinstall the whole damned software package. They treat most users as either imbeciles or abusers and anarchists. If it's simple they'll dress it in daisies and sunflowers. If it's complex and technical they'll make it as hard as possible to do it.
    Maybe i've just had bad experiences in a world of good ones, but the two things I have to go on are my own experiences and what I can discover from other's experiences.
    But mostly i dislike their pricing. they are more than capable of selling the items cheaper, but chose not to. There is no "Cheaper" option for Apple, it's Apple or expensive apple with extra shiny.

    And as yet, I've not seen a concrete reason for why a normal person SHOULD go for an apple over a PC. Some do, and they'll generally shout it's praises, but very few can give a good, technical and/or financial reason for getting one.

    Most of the people I know who get their first mac say either "I didn't have one and wanted to try one", or "Someone else told me they were cool". Occasionally i hear "I used one at XXX and thought it was good so i went and got one."

    Not once, have I heard "Well i looked at X,Y and Z, and they didn't really do what i wanted, which is AAA, and i managed to get AAA at BB special price which was as good price and spec as X,Y,Z."

  9. #23

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Well, every person I know with one has never had any issues with malware, viruses or other such fun. Personally, for the average home user, I think that's reason enough at the moment!

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Well, every person I know with one has never had any issues with malware, viruses or other such fun. Personally, for the average home user, I think that's reason enough at the moment!
    I have an AV installed at home and never have it switched on, except for a full scan i run every 1-2 montohs. It's been like that for about 4 years now without incident.

    And I'd never suggest a normal non-IT home user goes without one regardless of the computer or OS they are using. I know what I'm downloading, i never click on stuff I don't know, and I know how to fix anything that crops up when it shouldn't.
    AV's offer peace of mind for those who don't know any better.

    Hell, you can even get AV's for your phone now because "people" are dumb and click links they shouldn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Well, every person I know with one has never had any issues with malware, viruses or other such fun. Personally, for the average home user, I think that's reason enough at the moment!
    I use Windows and don't get viruses or malware because I use Anti-Virus/Anti-Spyware (both free versions). I've begun to think that users are at fault for most virus infections.

    Also, if it was reversed and 90% of computer users used a Mac, I'm sure there would be plenty more viruses knocking around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    I have an AV installed at home and never have it switched on, except for a full scan i run every 1-2 montohs. It's been like that for about 4 years now without incident.

    And I'd never suggest a normal non-IT home user goes without one regardless of the computer or OS they are using. I know what I'm downloading, i never click on stuff I don't know, and I know how to fix anything that crops up when it shouldn't.
    AV's offer peace of mind for those who don't know any better.

    Hell, you can even get AV's for your phone now because "people" are dumb and click links they shouldn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatmas View Post
    I use Windows and don't get viruses or malware because I use Anti-Virus/Anti-Spyware (both free versions). I've begun to think that users are at fault for most virus infections.

    Also, if it was reversed and 90% of computer users used a Mac, I'm sure there would be plenty more viruses knocking around.
    Are either of you NORMAL users? No. You're IT professionals.

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    dayzd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    In general i dislike some of apple's practices. If i want to access the hard drive of the thing i've paid for, I should be able to do so. When I get an update, I want to update what I need to, not reinstall the whole damned software package. They treat most users as either imbeciles or abusers and anarchists. If it's simple they'll dress it in daisies and sunflowers. If it's complex and technical they'll make it as hard as possible to do it.
    That is part of what makes Apple so popular. They remove the complications and abstract things so far for the benefit of the average user, who doesn't care what size swap file they have, or what services are running at startup. They make things easy.
    Which is why, for many users on here, who are more advanced users and won't use anything they can't tweak and control, that Macs can be so frustrating. They feel dumbed-down. Almost 'My first computer'-like.
    For your average 'email/Facebook/Tesco online' user, Apple makes it easy to do what you want and removes any options that might allow you to break it. Apple's 'just work' because the important stuff is hidden away, away from fat-fingered users, ready to click the wrong thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    And as yet, I've not seen a concrete reason for why a normal person SHOULD go for an apple over a PC. Some do, and they'll generally shout it's praises, but very few can give a good, technical and/or financial reason for getting one.
    Does there have to be? There's very often a part of the purchasing decision that comes down to personal preference. Continuing the thread with cars... As said above, why buy a 4-seater BMW saloon for 25kish, when you can have a Mondeo for 18k or however much they cost?

    Take their cost out of the equation and you level the playing field of this discussion drastically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Are either of you NORMAL users? No. You're IT professionals.
    And Apple know how to cash in on peoples lack of knowledge.

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    One thing I will give Apple is they do make very stylish products, I however am not willing to pay such a high premium for the sake of style (which is essentially where all these sports car/family saloon comparisons seem to be going)

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    Quote Originally Posted by abullett View Post
    For your average 'email/Facebook/Tesco online' user, Apple makes it easy to do what you want and removes any options that might allow you to break it. Apple's 'just work' because the important stuff is hidden away, away from fat-fingered users, ready to click the wrong thing!
    I agree with you here, that they have an appeal to those who just want something out of the box that works, and can't be easily fiddled with and broken. In fact, on those grounds alone, I could recommend one to somebody!

    Quote Originally Posted by abullett View Post
    Does there have to be? There's very often a part of the purchasing decision that comes down to personal preference. Continuing the thread with cars... As said above, why buy a 4-seater BMW saloon for 25kish, when you can have a Mondeo for 18k or however much they cost?
    Take their cost out of the equation and you level the playing field of this discussion drastically.
    And this is the reason I do not... I could easily suggest that everyone should drive 4x4's with estate type chassis for normal use; they are big enough to carry everything you want, and never have a problem with the weather. But if you only go 2 miles down the road with 2 kids, a corsa is more than enough for them!
    By the same reasoning, a Mac might be easier, and possibly more suited to a rounded family as the 'home PC'. But when you can buy 2 laptops for the price of one mac, I just can't really warrant it myself, and most people I speak to who want a home computer, don't want to spend that on a single machine for email/tesco/itunes.

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