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General Chat Thread, Apple: Love it or hate it. in General; Originally Posted by localzuk The UK isn't Apple's main market - the US is, and further to that, large cities ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    The UK isn't Apple's main market - the US is, and further to that, large cities in the US.
    but surely thats marketing suicide? to basically say "you can watch our glorious hi-def movies streaming to your tv.......unless you have a download cap or live in the uk, then you're screwed and will be watching 12 hours of buffering"

    i can understand primary marketing to the US, but to push forward with what will probably be a global surge of apple online stuff, regardless of if people can use them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    The UK isn't Apple's main market - the US is, and further to that, large cities in the US.
    Well according to SpeedTest.net (which I think most will agree is the best know internet speed testing service), the average broadband speed in the US is worse than ours.

    Speedtest.net - World Results

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    Well according to SpeedTest.net (which I think most will agree is the best know internet speed testing service), the average broadband speed in the US is worse than ours.

    Speedtest.net - World Results
    i think what localzuk was aiming at was the bigger cities, where they are probably running fibre to the home or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    i think what localzuk was aiming at was the bigger cities, where they are probably running fibre to the home or something.
    Precisely. FTTH is common now in large cities, companies like AT&T offer fibre services there. Sure, rural places have worse provision but the population lives mostly in urban areas now, both in the USA and the UK (ie. 83% in the USA, 90% in the UK, set to rise to 87% and 92% by 2030).

    So, with high speed internet provision speeding ahead in urban areas in both countries (and many others too), their marketing plan makes complete sense.

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    I don't know how much of the country is covered by Virgin's fibre optic network, but with 100Mb coming soon, that will be plenty enough to stream HD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Precisely. FTTH is common now in large cities, companies like AT&T offer fibre services there. Sure, rural places have worse provision but the population lives mostly in urban areas now, both in the USA and the UK (ie. 83% in the USA, 90% in the UK, set to rise to 87% and 92% by 2030).

    So, with high speed internet provision speeding ahead in urban areas in both countries (and many others too), their marketing plan makes complete sense.
    2030.... 2030.... I would hope super HD was out by then. FTTH is about 3% in the usa they say, USA face the exact same issues we do with rollout.
    Well when I was out in the states with edugeek meeting real people they all certainly didnt say they had an amazing net connection that allowed everything and anything to come down quickly, quite the opposite. They said if you paid through the teeth in cities you could get faster connections but no, nothing looks amazing for them for the next few years so sadly no their marketing is BS imo. I have seen little to prove that USA has *magical* net connections and plenty against so I am not sure where these statements are based yet.

    If apple had claimed this in 5 years time, maybe....
    Last edited by ZeroHour; 19th January 2011 at 03:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by difinity View Post
    I don't know how much of the country is covered by Virgin's fibre optic network, but with 100Mb coming soon, that will be plenty enough to stream HD.
    Not the majority.... and virgin are really bad when it comes to being an isp.
    Also the rich will pay for the 100mb but those without big pay wont thus lose doubly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by difinity View Post
    I don't know how much of the country is covered by Virgin's fibre optic network, but with 100Mb coming soon, that will be plenty enough to stream HD.
    Not sure of a figure but there are a lot of places still not covered (3 out of the 6 homes I've lived in over the past 5 years have had no coverage, and all were different post codes within the west midlands).

    However, BT are laying fibre optics now too, and competition has a funny way of speeding things up!

    That's not the only issue though, the fact is that super fast internet connections are simply not affordable to most people yet even if it is available to them, and the fastest packages most people can afford have too many limitations placed on them to be a real option in terms of streaming HD video (a lot don't even give you enough to stream one movie!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by difinity View Post
    I don't know how much of the country is covered by Virgin's fibre optic network, but with 100Mb coming soon, that will be plenty enough to stream HD.
    The main issue here being the caps they put in place .. I had their 20mb connection at my last property and at the time I wasn't exactly rolling in it (still not, but I'm a little more comfortable now) so went for their basic package .. after 2 weeks of my step kids using the net we were put on their reduction scheme for peak times (the times when the kids needed the net, and me for that matter) which made it reall difficult and then had to buy a higher priced package to get round it all ..

    If they do the same with their 100mb lines (which I've no doubt they will with all the recent copyright infringmenty things) then will it still be as good to use?

    I mean, to be honest, at the moment, I'd relish a 10mb line (I'm one of the nice rural types now on a 2mb connection .. and with 6 of us in the house, it's not great, better than the school I'm in where we have a 2mb connection for the school I guess but ... lol)

    Back to the point in hand, I have to agree with the Blu-Ray thing here .. yes, it's not their main market, but Apple are cutting a lot of things out there .. ok they want to push their own system, but when you can buy a Blu-Ray player for what, £30?, why would you want to spend £99 on Apple TV? If they allow Blu-Ray onto their platform and look to support it, even as an upgrade from the SuperDrive, then surely that would be the better way to go ..

    And as for cutting out the burning part when they're wanting to push the whole "we are the media choice" ideal .. yes, you can master the movie but send it to the other machines to render and burn .. but then, it's probably cheaper to render it on a PC based machine ..

    Comes back to the point of "buy what does the job best for you" ..

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    I'm not rich or on mega pay, i pay about £45 a month for 50Mb, a phone line and tv. I have had three problems with their line 3 times in the 6 or 7 years i've had their service, once was a national outage, once a local node and once when the workmen put a spade through my line when working next door.

    I've encountered awful customer service from BT on several occasions over the years and I'm not saying that one isp is better than the other, i'm sure we all have good and bad stories to tell.

    I can't see it a difficult thing for Apple to do to add the drivers and a Blu-ray drive to their range, and it's certainly not a cost issue considering the profit they just made, but how many people watch DVDs or Blu-rays on their laptops or desktops.

    Surely if people want to watch hi def movies they want to appreciate them on their big HD TVs connected to their AV receivers.

    p.s. Virgin cap their 10Mb and 20Mb packages, but not their 50Mb or 100Mb packages. Traffic Management | Virgin Media Help & Support - Virgin Media Shop

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    RE: virgin, my comments about them being evil are to do with what aptproductions said really, they give you a high connection speed but nerf you with limits. I am on sky bb myself with 20mb no limits so its not a huge issue for my but my parents in shetland have a 512kb connection...

    difinity 50mb packages are going to be traffic managed/throttled soon fyi. Also a suprising amount of people go away on a trip and take their laptop with dvd's/blurays to watch while away so they are used and thats before we get to using your computer wired to tv which there are a few of now but I do see it not being the hugest usage of discs but still at least let us buy an external drive to use if apple dont want to supply one.

    I am not a full apple hater, I just hate a lot of the crud excuses they give which means I dont respect them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aptproductions View Post
    The main issue here being the caps they put in place .. I had their 20mb connection at my last property and at the time I wasn't exactly rolling in it (still not, but I'm a little more comfortable now) so went for their basic package .. after 2 weeks of my step kids using the net we were put on their reduction scheme for peak times (the times when the kids needed the net, and me for that matter) which made it reall difficult and then had to buy a higher priced package to get round it all ..

    If they do the same with their 100mb lines (which I've no doubt they will with all the recent copyright infringmenty things) then will it still be as good to use?

    I mean, to be honest, at the moment, I'd relish a 10mb line (I'm one of the nice rural types now on a 2mb connection .. and with 6 of us in the house, it's not great, better than the school I'm in where we have a 2mb connection for the school I guess but ... lol)

    Back to the point in hand, I have to agree with the Blu-Ray thing here .. yes, it's not their main market, but Apple are cutting a lot of things out there .. ok they want to push their own system, but when you can buy a Blu-Ray player for what, £30?, why would you want to spend £99 on Apple TV? If they allow Blu-Ray onto their platform and look to support it, even as an upgrade from the SuperDrive, then surely that would be the better way to go ..

    And as for cutting out the burning part when they're wanting to push the whole "we are the media choice" ideal .. yes, you can master the movie but send it to the other machines to render and burn .. but then, it's probably cheaper to render it on a PC based machine ..

    Comes back to the point of "buy what does the job best for you" ..
    The apple tv is because it connects to iTunes and I think other providers so you can rent / buy movies / tv series etc as well as stream music without the setup of a PC / Mac / Media Centre that most people don't want - as per a comment above about people being lazy and they just want it to work - I don't own an apple TV but with HD T.V's and the ability to purchase a DVI to HDMI cable for my apple computer I can watch anything from my mac to my tv - I don't have blu ray on the mac but I do have a PS 3 which is used as a blu ray player ( which solves that issue ) but as far as apple are concerned ref the blu ray thing - they do all there HD stuff through itunes as you download said HD film clip and watch it on your computer or in my case on my Telly as all I have to do is swap to the relevant HDMI channel and I can configure if it is dual screened, cloned or whatever ( I have mine cloned )

    Yes I do admit that there high def stuff on iTunes is not high def because when you go above I think 720P it gets pixelated so they need to improve that but again if they improve it then people will be waiting a very long time to download said movie or item and it will take up a lot more space on said persons computer and if you are not great with computers then the size of a movie won't mean anything to you and when your computer soon runs out of space then they will complain.

    Also with broadband speeds and cap limits, if apple did make them better resolutions with or without codecs then you wouldn't be able to download much anyway so again this knackers up making high def content as you can't download it or can't be bothered to wait due to the max speeds being slow depending on your net connection speed / traffic shaping etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroHour View Post
    RE: virgin, my comments about them being evil are to do with what aptproductions said really, they give you a high connection speed but nerf you with limits. I am on sky bb myself with 20mb no limits so its not a huge issue for my but my parents in shetland have a 512kb connection...
    Sky .. bleurgh .. at least Virgin knew how to do an install .. it took me nearly 3 months to get my Sky BB up and running, nearly 2 months of that was trying to persuade Sky that they had activated my phoneline therefore they could go ahead and install the broadband ..

    I have to say, might only be a 2mb line I'm getting with them though, but the service since all that hassle has been good ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by aptproductions View Post
    Sky .. bleurgh .. at least Virgin knew how to do an install .. it took me nearly 3 months to get my Sky BB up and running, nearly 2 months of that was trying to persuade Sky that they had activated my phoneline therefore they could go ahead and install the broadband ..

    I have to say, might only be a 2mb line I'm getting with them though, but the service since all that hassle has been good ..
    the sam knows website is a load of rubbish - worth while maybe going to the relevant ISP websites and checking your land line phone number or post code to see if they can give you broadband. I am currently with Bethere ( http://www.bethere.co.uk ).

    As long as you have a bt phone line and I think they ship you out a thompson router as part of the deal ( cant remember all the details, think you have to pay an up front cost not too much though ) and that pays for the router they ship you ( which aint that brilliant ) so use my own netgear router, which I had to configure myself, but if they set up the account correctly which they didn't do with mine but isnt an issue ( ie I wanted it to be dhcp instead of static ip ) then the router configuration should be minimal instead of manually configuring the network info ie ip address, subnet mask, dns servers etc
    Last edited by mac_shinobi; 19th January 2011 at 05:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mac_shinobi View Post
    but as far as apple are concerned ref the blu ray thing - they do all there HD stuff through itunes as you download said HD film clip and watch it on your computer or in my case on my Telly as all I have to do is swap to the relevant HDMI channel and I can configure if it is dual screened, cloned or whatever ( I have mine cloned )

    Yes I do admit that there high def stuff on iTunes is not high def because when you go above I think 720P it gets pixelated so they need to improve that but again if they improve it then people will be waiting a very long time to download said movie or item and it will take up a lot more space on said persons computer and if you are not great with computers then the size of a movie won't mean anything to you and when your computer soon runs out of space then they will complain.

    Also with broadband speeds and cap limits, if apple did make them better resolutions with or without codecs then you wouldn't be able to download much anyway so again this knackers up making high def content as you can't download it or can't be bothered to wait due to the max speeds being slow depending on your net connection speed / traffic shaping etc
    So does that mean your saying you see the point of having blu-ray? connections would be stuffed if they actually tried to deliver full hd = fail.
    And like you say the apple downloads are heavily compressed with an attempt at 720 but even then its poor. They have NO full 1080p 7.1 surround realHD videos to watch at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by aptproductions View Post
    Sky .. bleurgh .. at least Virgin knew how to do an install .. it took me nearly 3 months to get my Sky BB up and running, nearly 2 months of that was trying to persuade Sky that they had activated my phoneline therefore they could go ahead and install the broadband ..

    I have to say, might only be a 2mb line I'm getting with them though, but the service since all that hassle has been good ..
    I have heard fresh lines can be pain with sky, I was previous a BT line with another provider (not bt) and moving was really easy and fast.

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