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General Chat Thread, Interview from the how to NOT appoint an ICT Network Manager book! in General; ...
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    Interview from the how to NOT appoint an ICT Network Manager book!

    Recently attended another Interview for an ICT Network Manager that was a complete waste of my time. I thought I wanted to get back into Educational ICT not too sure anymore. When are these out dated interview processes going to be updated to ensure that the best candidates are appointed?

    It is a joke. I started as ICT Technician, progressed to Network Manager at the same School. I was then “head hunted” to go contracting 6 years ago with a private sector company as an Educational ICT technical specialist working with leading schools and academies. I have appointed ICT Technical Staff, designed and implemented educational ICT network solutions and upgrades and have over 20 years experience in the Educational sector.

    The Borough “who will remain nameless” are looking to implement a managed service so the position will probably be TUPE’d. The irony is, I am currently working as an IT Manager in the private sector and could implement and run the managed service for them!

    And the reason they gave for me being unsuccessful “Did not have enough RM CC4 experience” Your loss guy’s but the sad thing is, it’s the educational sector that ultimately looses. Perfectly good candidates who are keen to get back into the sector, have a vast amount of experience in both the public and private sector, many like me are willing to give up a perfectly good jobs and take a pay cut are completely disregarded and offered a lame excuse like lack of CC4 experience.

    Rant over.

  2. 2 Thanks to djm968:

    jamesfed (6th December 2010), nephilim (4th December 2010)

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    dwhyte85's Avatar
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    I think some places don't want people who are too capable and who'll potentially rock the boat - from experience of a few interviews since handing my notice in. You're obviously very capable, maybe you wouldn't stand for complacency?

    People who are too able, too pro-active, have ideas and want to get things good might pose a problem for a weak SMT - alot of schools just want to know it works, forget about it rather than to continually improve... or so it seems with some of the state schools.
    Last edited by dwhyte85; 4th December 2010 at 02:47 PM.

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    Sounds like a lame excuse to me. A lot of people not immediatly working with the product don't realise that most of the functionality of RM CC3 or CC4 is provided by the operating system, just in an easier to use interface so practically anyone who can run a windows network can manage a CC4 or CC3 network no problems. I actually pointed this out at interview for the Academy I was evetually employed by 2 1/2 years ago, when I was asked if I had experience with CC3. They had assumed CC3 was a completely different product to a 'normal' network and needed a completely different skill set. They almost thought I wasn't telling the truth, but went away and checked and sure enough I got offered the job.

    The other reason unfortunitely could be that they already had someone lined up for the job, and just gave you any plausable sounding excuse for not employing you, which is a shame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac
    The other reason unfortunitely could be that they already had someone lined up for the job, and just gave you any plausable sounding excuse for not employing you, which is a shame.
    Or they could have done a perfectly fair interview whereby someone else came along who fitted their plans better. Why does there have to be anything sinister? The OP could have simply been beaten by a better candidate.

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    dwhyte85's Avatar
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    True, it could be that too...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcollings View Post
    Or they could have done a perfectly fair interview whereby someone else came along who fitted their plans better. Why does there have to be anything sinister? The OP could have simply been beaten by a better candidate.
    This is true, although out of all the skills the OP states he has, it seems a very trivial reason to give for not employing them.

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    SYSMAN_MK's Avatar
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    Or there could have been another candidate that had similar skill set as the OP but with more CC4 Experience?

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    dwhyte85's Avatar
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    I think, if you compared it to a job in the real world. Saying you didn't have VMWare experience for a job but you've other experience with a similar product would still keep you in with a good chance providing you hit the other checkboxes...

    But you're right maybe someone hit all of the other checkboxes AND hit the CC4 one too. Maybe they didn't want someone who'd learn on the job, but to be honest... if someone has experience within the sector for a long time, people management skills and everything but that one product, you might see why they feel a bit unlucky... I've seen absolute tools get network manager jobs with no real ability but they have one checkbox ticked that the school considers mandatory when it's not that big of a deal and as a consequence re-recruit in 6 months when they've realised they've got the wrong person...

    6 of 1, half a dozen of the other... nobody will ever know for sure.
    Last edited by dwhyte85; 4th December 2010 at 03:41 PM.

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    All valid points however they also informed me that they haven’t appointed this time and will be running the process again in the new year! Good luck to all who apply and remember you will obviously require CC4 experience as Windows NT4 (RM Connect 2.4) Windows 2000, 2003, 2008 or RM CC3, backed by 20 odd years experience will not be sufficient.

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    bodminman's Avatar
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    LOL - I've had a similar experience too! Ticked all the boxes but the school wanted 1 year minimum CC3 exeprience. I had about 6 months experience but as there criteria was 1 years minimum experience, they re-advertised!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwhyte85 View Post
    you might see why they feel a bit unlucky... .
    To be honest I don’t feel unlucky at all, disappointed possibly but also angry that they wasted my time. If they had mentioned RM CC4 was a prerequisite, I probably wouldn’t have applied in the first place or would have prepared a suitable question to open debate around this.

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    I always find it amusing that places won't employ or even interview just because you don't have the relevant bits of paper. You may be the best techie in the world, have had years of experience but, because you have not taken any of the daft MS exams or done a CCNA, they won't bother.
    As I have said before - anyone can cram to pass an exam, it's experience and understanding of the working environment that counts.
    I was once told that if I took the exams then they would consider me for future employment. Explaining that I did not fancy studying after work for hours because I had other commitments [ like my family ] and quite frankly having letters after my name or bits paper saying I can do X,Y and Z when I can already do them - sometimes much better than people who have, they did not understand. Never mind.
    The fact that I have run with half million pound projects in the past, implemented systems up and down the country and been responsible for actually writing a help desk system in the past [ ok it was a long time ago and done in DB2 and raw SQL ] does not impress them. To me that shows the employers sheer stupidity. You know what you are capable of, you have clearly showed that on your CV and in an interview - if the personal / person interviewing can't see that then the problem lies with them and not you.

    Places these days ask all the wrong questions - a proper structured interview is what's required for roles - being able to provide examples and break them down into how you got there and explaining your reasons etc show you in a much better light than having to answer the normal brain dead questions of:

    What would you do if you caught a student viewing porn.
    Sell me this pen.
    Name 3 good things about yourself.
    Why are man hole covers round ? [ This was a real question I once had ] - in which I replied so they won't fall down the hole.
    Last edited by mattx; 4th December 2010 at 03:57 PM.

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    Unbelievable, it just makes me so angry. I knew the moment I walked in and probably could’ve even recited word for word the questions they were about as me.
    I appointed the ICT Technician where I was NM, the guy had no educational ICT experience but he was by far the most suitable candidate. He took over the NM position when I left to further my career. He is still there and the Head has often commented his was one of the best appointments the school had made!

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    Well, i could change it to majorly cheesed off if you'd like?

    When schools recruit they focus on what they know rather than what can be inferred by experience/qualifications, if you'd have said you had experience they might have put a tick in that box and things may have been different.

    I gave a list of stuff that I do in my job which they are recuiting for currently and they've become fanatical over things that I wouldn't have said were the most important thing in my job. The sad thing is they aren't listening to me and they've not had many applications through the avenues they've taken because of person description they've made without my input... like I was going to try ruin it or something and opted for the guy who is doing the ICT review to help make it...

    My concern is, like mattx has said about quals... the chap suggested CCNA would be needed for the job, the fact we have no cisco equipment other than the cisco router owned by easynet (and managed by) just shows... people don't have a clue what they need when recruiting.

    I could configure one in the environment we have WITHOUT the need for a CCNA... from experience of other hardware and a bit of reading.
    Last edited by dwhyte85; 4th December 2010 at 04:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwhyte85 View Post
    My concern is, like mattx said he suggest CCNA would be needed for the job, the fact we have no cisco equipment other than the cisco router owned by easynet (and managed by) just shows... people don't have a clue what they need when recruiting.
    LOL. I will send them a copy of the how NOT to appoint the right candidate for the position of ICT Network Manager book. Page 5 is amusing.... 5.1 All sit around the meeting room table, consultant from local authority must only nod and never open his mouth! GET IN THE REAL WORLD

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