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General Chat Thread, And the cuts just keep on coming !! in General; The Aimhigher university access scheme has been scrapped by the Eton Boys. Tossers. Times Higher Education - Aimhigher brought down ...
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    mattx's Avatar
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    And the cuts just keep on coming !!

    The Aimhigher university access scheme has been scrapped by the Eton Boys. Tossers.

    Times Higher Education - Aimhigher brought down by coalition axe

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    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    I am really starting to wonder how anyone will be able to afford to go to university.

    My kids are in Years 10 & 12 and we are relatively well off, but we're still cringeing at the potential cost of getting them through university

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    mattx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    I am really starting to wonder how anyone will be able to afford to go to university.

    My kids are in Years 10 & 12 and we are relatively well off, but we're still cringeing at the potential cost of getting them through university
    Similar to you - mine are 10 and 8 - I started saving for them when they were born - I worked out I won't be able to afford to send them if they want to go
    With the costs of fees, cost of living etc - I just don't know what I will do should they really want it. If push comes to shove I'll move to a smaller property because I'm certainly not having a bunch of Eton knob ends screwing up my kid's education because they want to get rich off it.
    I wonder how many places could be paid for instead of paying for this pathetic Royal Wedding Security ?

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattx View Post
    The Aimhigher university access scheme has been scrapped by the Eton Boys. Tossers.

    Times Higher Education - Aimhigher brought down by coalition axe
    But isn't this a case of one intiative to increase participation to be replaced by another, or another set of initiatives.

    He added: “In the future, universities wanting to charge [tuition fees of] more than 6,000 will be required to participate in the National Scholarship Programme and will be monitored to ensure they enrol an increasing number of students from disadvantaged backgrounds.”

    In a statement, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills says that the government will work to establish a new “framework” for widening participation, which will place more responsibility on universities.
    i think it's best not to be too reactionary to every 'axe' announcement until it can be seen how the alternative[s] work out.

    As for the whole meeting the cost of higher HE tuition fees debate, isn't this just another example of the generational wealth transfer that will continue to take place ?
    it might not be what some people want to hear, but it may no longer be the case that the accumilation in net financial assets by the older generation as a group will be allowed to sit there increasing relative to inflation, in this new zero interest rate environment.
    [and i am aware of how squeezed finances are at present, but on the whole over the last decade we've seen increases in wealth for certain groups at the expense of increased debts elsewhere]

    Those savings and/or assets will have to be used to fund housing [through deposits for house purchase] and university education for the young. the former is undoubtedly a wealth transfer, the latter is arguably so aswell in that the funding of a graduate education could potentially see increased incomes for said graduates through their careers, if the oft-quoted statistic about graduate earnings power is to be accepted.

    the problem with the coalition proposals is that, it seems to want to shift more of the burden on to repayment by the young and indebted once they start earning. but that still won't stop considerate parents using wealth/savings to reduce the debt burden.
    ofcourse this cost burden has other effects that might not help the young, namely the parents doing the funding having to work for longer, not freeing up employment opportunities for the young ? But in the example that matt gave, of downsizing, if that happens increasingly that could allow for the young generations who wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity to buy such properties. i don't see tutition fees, and a proportionate increase as having an entirely negative outcome.

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    SimpleSi (26th November 2010)

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    I can understand that if you'd planned on paying for your children's higher education, the cost increases look horrendous.

    But I think the problem is a mindset rather than a practical one.

    in 99% of cases. your children will be able to borrow the extra money needed and pay it back as effectively an extra tax later in life when they are earning.

    So if you were planning on paying for a lot of their costs, then just let them pay for the extra. They'll still be much better off relatively than the children of parents who aren't able to help out their children go to university.

    regards

    Simon

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleSi View Post
    in 99% of cases. your children will be able to borrow the extra money needed and pay it back as effectively an extra tax later in life when they are earning.
    but if, as i understand it, there will be no compulsion to pay fees upfront, what 'extra' are the students needing to borrow ?

    it's the parents who need to spend if they want a reduction in the amounts that are clawed back from the students via the tax system when they start earning above 21k. OR if they want to elimate payments entirely, if that's possible.

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    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleSi View Post
    I can understand that if you'd planned on paying for your children's higher education, the cost increases look horrendous.

    But I think the problem is a mindset rather than a practical one.

    in 99% of cases. your children will be able to borrow the extra money needed and pay it back as effectively an extra tax later in life when they are earning.

    So if you were planning on paying for a lot of their costs, then just let them pay for the extra. They'll still be much better off relatively than the children of parents who aren't able to help out their children go to university.

    regards

    Simon
    Student loans didn't come on the radar until my eldest was comfortably at primary school... current sixth form parents will not have realised the likely impact and the need to save until it was too late.

    The 'just get a student loan' argument is all very well, but who wants their child to be saddled with a large debt for that length of time? Not that parents have any choice, it's the way it will have to be

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    If you are sufficiently poor, there are still grants for students. Mine started uni this year. She'll still have debts to pay, but not too horrific, compared to say a new car. That is, if she stops spending money she doesn't have...

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    Not that parents have any choice, it's the way it will have to be
    indeed. this process is baked in.

    but i do question how much scope there is to load more debt onto students, as a solution from politicians. Maybe the ultimate solution is that increased sacrifices and lower standard of living will have to be tolerated as a fallout from the credit boom......if people still want to send their kids to university. Rather than backloading most of the cost via the graduate tax clawback.

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    MK-2's Avatar
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    just as an aside, our head went to a conference where vince cable spoke of the cuts, saying that the choices weren't taken lightly, and it came down to cutting from the health sector, secondary school funding or university funding and that was the one they decided on

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    but who wants their child to be saddled with a large debt for that length of time?
    You just need to have a paradigm shift

    Its costs X pounds to educate someone at Uni.

    This money can come via taxes on parents/taxes on students or money directly from parents (pretty much same thing as taxes on parents)

    It still costs X pounds

    If you don't want your children to pay back the loans and you can't afford to pay out while they are studying - just give them the equivalent take-home pay loss they will incurr each month once they are earning.

    Same result acheived.

    regards

    Simon

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    torledo (26th November 2010)

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    mattx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    just as an aside, our head went to a conference where vince cable spoke of the cuts, saying that the choices weren't taken lightly, and it came down to cutting from the health sector, secondary school funding or university funding and that was the one they decided on
    I don't believe that for a second - the lib dems made a pledge, when they got a sniff of power they just caved in to what Uncle David wanted. The party has no backbone and come the next general election will be wiped off the face of the map whilst David and his rich chums laugh into their champagne glasses whilst saying 'old chap' and 'rar rar rar, we are richer than you'

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    The way I see it is, degrees are not worth much nowadays because every man and his dog has one. Perhaps with limiting the amount of people going to university a degree might become meaningful again.

    Not every job requires a degree, yet most request one nowadays, and it's at the point where it's just silly.

    And by the way, I'm not saying dumping on the poor is the way to do this before you all jump on me.

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    j17sparky (26th November 2010), Robz (26th November 2010)

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    What about just encouraging students to do a few years of work before university? Let them see the real world a bit, get some genuine experience of something other than education, and have a little time to figure out exactly what they want to do? A 29 year old graduate with a few years of real work experience is in a much, much better position than the brand new graduate who's never seen anything outside a classroom. They're also less likely to abandon their degree mid-way, or change subject.

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    Students Loans will now have to be used for paying student fees with students staying at home like in most other countries of the world. They will then have to work additionally in the holidays. I was at university for 4 years in the 1st two I had a student loan in the 2nd two I did not. I kept my part time job form sixth from to the end of university. Sorry folks students will have to stay at home to save money and not spend the time drinking.

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