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General Chat Thread, This will upset quite a few people in General; http://modernenlightenment.wordpress.com/...
  1. #1

    mattx's Avatar
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    This will upset quite a few people


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    pooley's Avatar
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    Didn't upset me

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Oh, I love this argument ... and the few dozen variations I have heard over the years ... and there is always this presumption that just because I (and others) have faith and belief that we are constantly ramming it down the throats of others.

    Even if we put to one side that each person might believe in something slightly different (down to personal interpretation of God again) there is still the running joke that if all Catholics believe that it is the Catholics who will be saved on Judgement Day ... heck ... getting rid of the rest of the world would give them more space.

    There is always the position of not understanding the nature of what we are trying to measure and if it is measurable (which will result in many automatically throwing out any points raised by Theists because what cannot be measured is not real ... and yes, the wind argument is a highly flawed one) but who says it cannot be measured? Perhaps we are just in a position that it cannot be measured at this time in this place.

    Half the argument against God just prove that God cannot be proved to exist based on present scientific or logical arguments ... and some of these can also be used to show you cannot disprove that God exists ... for the same reasons ... it questions the validity of the tests and measurements. These are discussions and arguments for the moot courts ... and have been for centuries ... at least we are in a position now where society does not kill people for having differing values and beliefs ... but we are getting to a position where those of faith are sneered at and looked down on in a sort of positive discrimination in favour of secular society.

    Live and let live I say ...

    It is worth saying that the same moot courts over the years have been used to argue about a wide range of things, including whether homosexuality is good or bad, whether monogamy is good or bad, all the way through to some discussions which I am pretty sure we would all take the negative stance on ... things like necrophilia, bestiality, incest, etc ... in the present society we view these are bad / wrong / illegal / evil ... it is mainly down to interpretation of the law (whether we are talking about laws based on religious beliefs or society's choices) ...

    Go discuss ... again.

  4. 3 Thanks to GrumbleDook:

    maestromasada (27th October 2010), mark (27th October 2010), SteveT (27th October 2010)

  5. #4

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    I agree with pretty much all of it - but as much as I do, it's worth noting that whilst the arguments for such a being can't be justified, they also can't be refuted. My family is full of people from all walks of life - theres Christians, atheists, agnostics, spiritualists and roman catholics. They all get on absolutely fine because none of them try and impart their beliefs on others and have a mutual respect of each other for the people they are, not for their faiths. That's how it should work globally really, but that would just be too perfect. They say religion is the cause of wars; it's sort of correct. No deity has ever wished a war on anyone; noone can prove those deitys exist to wish such a thing. It's just how people are interpreting and pushing their own religion on others.

    Funny really, as an agnostic myself, 2 of the people I've worked with in education for the last couple of years and gotten on really well with are Jehova's Witnesses

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    Personally, as an athiest I think it's all twoddle. That said, I don't see the point in forcing my reasoning on a believer - I know it can help people feel like they've got a purpose and that they're working towards something. I've had this discussion before whilst at school (as a learner), I've found believers try to ram beliefs down my throat and on what is practically unfounded claims, an old book that could be true but may not be. I know the argument of it's a set of stories to help lead lives better is widely used too but on that basis, will books on self improvement be sacred in a 100 years time?

    I think live and let live comes into it but, realism and reasonable judgement comes into play. We believed in Santa Claus based on stories as a kid, a guy may have existed (st Nicholas) who brought children presents but whether he was how we saw/see Santa Claus is a different matter, years of effectively chinese whispers may have developed what we 'know' now but may be far from the truth and greatly exaggerated - but the concept was similar - that's how I see the bible.

    They're my opinions, so please don't be offended.

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    tech_guy's Avatar
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    Well, I've managed to become lapsed in two religions. Do I win some sort of prize?

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    Dos_Box's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_guy View Post
    Well, I've managed to become lapsed in two religions. Do I win some sort of prize?
    How can you become a lapsed Jedi!!!
    Surely you still use your powers for getting hard to reach objects out of high cupboards?

  9. #8

    tech_guy's Avatar
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    Whoops, forgot Jedi, make that three then.

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    The preachy people on either side(s) of the arguments are usually "teh crazy" in other aspects of their life anyway, so just ignore em. The question isn't interesting and the answer doesn't matter.

  11. #10
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    As Bertrand Russell once said: "The universe is just there, and that's all"...

  12. #11
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    "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in.
    Some of us just go one god further."


    Richard Dawkins

  13. #12

    aerospacemango's Avatar
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    "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." - Karl Marx

    However, whatever the religion, whatever the belief, there is no excuse for the persecution of ANY non-believer.

    I would not persecute any of you for not believing in MY religion. (Jedi, in case you're wondering! I WAS one of those in the last census!!!!)

  14. #13

    Domino's Avatar
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    Pfft, we all know there's only one true god

    » The Church of Google

  15. Thanks to Domino from:

    ButterflyMoon (1st November 2010)

  16. #14

    mattx's Avatar
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    I worship alcohol. 'Nuff said.

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    tech_guy's Avatar
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    I now worship at the shrine of Apple - well at least to their lesser god the iPad....


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