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General Chat Thread, OOo's put the willies up Microsoft in General; OOo's put the willies up Microsoft ? The Register...
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    mattx's Avatar
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    OOo's put the willies up Microsoft


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    mjs_mjs's Avatar
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    bit of OO bashing going on there.

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    webman's Avatar
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    I see a few of the complaints are issues about file formats. This wouldn't have been an issue if MS Office didn't use its proprietary format in the first place!

    The first quote from Scotland police is from 2005 - that's a huge amount of time in technology terms. One news story at the time quotes:

    David Stirling, head of ICT for Central Scotland Police said, “Although an open-source solution met our needs in the past, it was becoming more difficult to maintain. “As the need for increased integration and compatibility with other criminal justice agencies and community partners grows, the value of similar infrastructures becomes more important.” Open source installations will be retained in some areas, the force said.
    (source)

    Another take on the video: Why did Microsoft validate OpenOffice.org? rand($thoughts);

  4. Thanks to webman from:

    bossman (19th October 2010)

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    I have to agree with the video.

    We moved to OOo's suite over the summer, and we've just found it to be a huge pain to run and maintain. The teachers are not familiar with it, so in some cases the students know more than they do. It doesn't come with any Clipart worth mentioning, and trying to find a decent OO supported clipart bank that's free, and works is difficult at best. Plus we've had all sorts of issues with layout errors moving between MS and OO, and missing features.

    I know a good part of it is education of those working with it and supporting it. But in the end, this week when I roll out MS Office 2003 again, there really will be a sigh of relief, and likely some cheering.

    Maybe it could work if you have someone who is an OOo guru who can run training sessions on the major differences and quirks, but the pain caused when trying to interoperate between suites with other people who don't use OOo just wasn't worth it, and I wouldn't recommend it to others.

    It is fine for throwing out the odd word document with no fancy stuff being done, aka average home user. As soon as you start working with other parts of the package, or getting into the more advanced stuff, it just doesn't do what you want it to without hours of research, troubleshooting, trawling forums, and installing addons most of which will throw errors, or not work the way you want them to.

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    I think those issues largely (only?) arise when the user is familiar with M$ Orifice and tries doing things "the M$ Way". If they didn't know anything and were open to learning, neither would be easier or harder. The lack of compatibility with M$ is entirely down to the deliberate policy of Redmond trying to lock people into there wares.

    The video is FUD mongering at its finest!
    Last edited by Andrew_C; 19th October 2010 at 12:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    I think those issues largely (only?) arise when the user is familiar with M$ Orifice and tries doping things "the M$ Way". If they didn't know anything and were open to learning, neither would be easier or harder. The lack of compatibility with M$ is entirely down to the deliberate policy of Redmond trying to lock people into there wares.

    The video is FUD mongering at its finest!
    What I find interesting is the lack of complaints moving from Office 2003 to Office 2007/2010 buy the same people who'll complain loudly at OO.o - 'It just doesn't say MicroSoft on the tin'?

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    nicholab's Avatar
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    Who going to fix the software? well it so easy to ring up Microsoft and they have a patch out to you in person!! (flying pigs just went past)

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    mattx's Avatar
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    I hate the MS Ribbon - hate it hate it hate it. I still can't find anything and I've been using it since Office 2007 & I hate it even more now on Office 2010. Yes I am slow, yes I am thick, yes and I am stupid but I would prefer to be given a choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    I have to agree with the video.

    We moved to OOo's suite over the summer, and we've just found it to be a huge pain to run and maintain. The teachers are not familiar with it, so in some cases the students know more than they do. It doesn't come with any Clipart worth mentioning, and trying to find a decent OO supported clipart bank that's free, and works is difficult at best. Plus we've had all sorts of issues with layout errors moving between MS and OO, and missing features.

    I know a good part of it is education of those working with it and supporting it. But in the end, this week when I roll out MS Office 2003 again, there really will be a sigh of relief, and likely some cheering.

    Maybe it could work if you have someone who is an OOo guru who can run training sessions on the major differences and quirks, but the pain caused when trying to interoperate between suites with other people who don't use OOo just wasn't worth it, and I wouldn't recommend it to others.

    It is fine for throwing out the odd word document with no fancy stuff being done, aka average home user. As soon as you start working with other parts of the package, or getting into the more advanced stuff, it just doesn't do what you want it to without hours of research, troubleshooting, trawling forums, and installing addons most of which will throw errors, or not work the way you want them to.
    So its no good because it doesnt come with clipart (its not 1995 you know) and teachers arnt familiar with it, oh and itisnt completely compatible with M$ (just like M$ 2003 isnt compatible with 2007 even with the "compatibility pack"). Come on, if it is truely a bad product you must have a list of reason why...

    We've got people using it here and have had no complaints and may consider switching completely so would love to know why its a bad idea.
    Last edited by j17sparky; 19th October 2010 at 12:41 PM.

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    I have server 2003 based network, and XP desktops. I attempted to package deploy via AD most software, and the one I had the most trouble with was Open Office. Either I got error boxes after packaging, Or I couldn't disable the registration box which pops up for every user, or the customer experience window.
    I eventually gave up and just imaged it, as it caused a lot less issues. MS Office though not flawless, is a lot easier to package as it was partially built to be deployed in that manner.

    It also had no clipart, which in a primary school is something used very frequently. You may not want/need it elsewhere, but when teaching a 6 year old, you really do not want them searching google images every 5 minutes to find what they want. Yes I can go buy a clipart set of 65,000 images or whatever, but again MS office already comes with this, and it works. I don't have to go hunting for it in a shared folder somewhere.

    I've had issues with documents going between MS and OO, where things like borders and layouts broke during the transition. Yes I know this could be caused by MS, but it wouldn't happen if I didn't have 2 differing suites.

    It doesn't support Smart Notebook to work within it properly for writing recognition we've discovered.

    Many of the shortcuts or features found in MS Office are either different or missing. This is as much an education problem, but again one that would not have happened if I hadn't moved to OO.

    And it's not supported (currently) by Capita SIMS.net.

    Some might find it useful, and some might prefer it. But I said I would not recommend it on my experience.

    So far, the only arguement I've seen for it is that it's free, and in looks it's like software released 7-8 years ago.

    As to the ribbon arguement, it's just an education problem, just as it is with Open Office. The difference is, there are guides and courses aplenty on MS office usage. The support for open office in this manner is sparce, if not even non-existent.
    And MS didn't just release it for the sake of it. From what I gather, a lot of time and effort was put into research and studies on a more efficient menu style, and that is what, apparently worked out.

    The talk is, the OOo team are working on their own Ribbon based interface anyway

  14. #11

    mattx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    .....Or I couldn't disable the registration box which pops up for every user, or the customer experience window.
    I eventually gave up and just imaged it, as it caused a lot less issues.
    I wrote a script for that when we tried it back in......Oct 2008 !! [ Always knew why I stuck a date in my code !! ]

    Code:
    ; AutoIt Version:  	3.2.0.1
    ; Language:        	English
    ; Platform:        	WinXP
    ; Author:          	Matt  
    ; Script Function: 	soffice.bin process killer
    ; Version:			1.0
    ; Date:				Oct 2008
    
    Opt("TrayIconHide", 1) 
    RunAsSet("administrator", @computername, "PASSWORD")
    ProcessClose('soffice.bin')
    RunAsSet()
    Exit
    Last edited by mattx; 19th October 2010 at 02:35 PM.

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    I found that Open Office has a few quirks. I have a word document that is laid out for a mail merge with a CSV file for little kiddies name cards (Reception, yr1, yr2 etc). This works well in MS, but it seems that no one else can produce a decent mail merge apart from MS. I have tried the process in both Open Office and Pages '09 with results that just aren't what I'm after.

    It may just be me.

    This is the task:

    A column of cells the width of the page and a row from the csv file in each cell. The row consists of a single field (username).

    so you should have on the page after the mail merge...

    username1
    username2
    username3
    username4

    etc..


    In Pages it seems that you can only use one field once.

    In Open Office it seems that you can only have a small square like a label.

    As I say it might just be me, but Word in this case is simple and easy. The rest just don't cut it, much to my annoyance.

    There's also some other quirks in OOo like changing the colour of text already typed. The colour swatch stays the same colour from the looks of it and also I've seen where it outright refuses to change the colour. even it all of this is a oversight on my part, word processing shouldn't be difficult.

    Just my opinion...
    Carry on.

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    The UI in Word 2003 is a complete mess compared to the ribbon interface in 2007/2010 (as the screenshots below demonstrate).

    Also, how can OpenOffice improve when there is so much wasted effort? Why do we need 5+ versions (OpenOffice, LibreOffice, Go-OO, Lotus Symphony, NeoOffice)? Surely if everyone worked together they could come up with a much better product?

    Last edited by Arthur; 21st October 2010 at 01:13 AM.

  17. #14

    mattx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    The UI in Word 2003 is a complete mess compared to the ribbon interface in 2007/2010 (as the screenshots below demonstrate).
    And the Ribbon in 2007/2010 just hides away the stuff I am looking for ! At least under 2003 I know that if I click on the TOOLS pull down menu I will find it. With the ribbon I end up clicking backwards and forwards trying to find the tool, I then can't find it and end up hitting F1 and searching the help.
    It's horses for courses, some prefer the ribbon, some prefer the old pull down menus. I would prefer the choice.

  18. #15

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    The UI in Word 2003 is a complete mess compared to the ribbon interface in 2007/2010 (as the screenshots below demonstrate).
    Missed the point. People are happy enough to learn the UI differences between MS Office '03 and '07 but not happy to learn the less drastic menu placement differences between MS Office '03 and OO.o

    Also, how can OpenOffice improve when there is so much wasted effort? Why do we need 5+ versions (OpenOffice, LibreOffice, Go-OO, Lotus Symphony, NeoOffice)? Surely if everyone worked together they could come up with a much better product?
    My understanding is that OpenOffice and Go-OO develop and feed into one central code base - LibreOffice. Lotus Symphony is old irrelevant proprietary software and NeoOffice is a re-writting of the front end in Java so it can run on OS X and itself may now be obsolete by official OO.o/Libre/Go builds. Add in Novell, IBM and Oracle and every one is pretty much working together on one better product. At least until Oracle change the rules.

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